Re: VCL.NET or ASP.NET tools

Hi,

But just about any web application is already n-tier, in a sense. You
have
an application server. You have a thin client (browser) with little if
any
business logic on it. The business logic is centralised on the server.
You
can partition the logic into tiers as required on the server.

[ . . . snip . . . ]

Hence an application server _is_ in use. Its just under another name.

I thought that was exactly the point I had made! A web application already
has an application server. You need an application server to provide
data-driven web applications that server HTML pages dynamically created on
the fly.

No. The point you made was that the _webserver_ itself is an application server and the webbrowser is the client in a
3-tier setup. That is usually not the case, anyway not in any scalable solution.

That application server could just as well be kbmMW or competing 3rdparty
products for .Net. Doing that would save you
alot of coding, and give you a setup that is easier to maintain, have more
out of the box features and are readily
available for scaling from the smallest to the largest setups without
changing code.

Alright. You could make your webserver use kbmmw as an ISAPI dll or
something. Why not?

But thats not what Im talking about. You really need to split up the architecture in its true tiers to see what I mean.
The webserver _is not_ the application server. Doesnt matter if the webserver application/weblication is made using IW,
ASP.Net etc.

But my point was why would you , in the case where there are only browser
clients? I don't see any advantage. It seems to me that it just adds
complexity, and does not make it easier to maintain.

If you only have 10 web clients and thats it. You dont plan to expand your business and your business code will never be
used anywhere else than in that web application, then you are 100% right.. No need to create the extra application
server tier.

However experience have teached me that in 99% of commercial cases, thats not whats happening. They do want to expand,
they do want their business code to be maintainable and accessible _outside_ a webserver. Hence they start to add all or
a good part of the tricks and bits that makes an application server an application server by own code, or they move it
out to MTS or MSMQ or a J2EE app server or a kbmMW server or whatever.

The issue here, is that just because he wants to make a webbrowser accessible interface to his data/business logic, it
usually doesnt make the requirements for an application server in one form or another go away.
Heck... you could ofcourse code it al in the old fashioned 2-tier way... C/S... but most of the rest of the world have
progressed further since that.

4 tiers is still covered by 'n' tiers, I think! <g>

Yes... absolutely... but it seems from your arguments that you are mostly seeing a 3 tier solution... db - webserver -
browser.

Right, I know they both have app servers. That is exactly why I was
mentioning them as examples of n-tier applications. I don't follow your
point . . .

The point was that you ruled out kbmMW as the application server part. kbmMW provides much more functionality than
ASP.Net does out of the box.

Sure, you support whatever databases the web application framework supports.
For Cold Fusion, that's any database with an OLEDB or ODBC interface. That's
a lot of databases. For ASP.NET it's any database with an ADO.NET provider.

Yes. but you cant select the best of breed if that is a concern.
And its a lot more difficult to write a new ADO.Net provider than it is to write a kbmMW database adapter.

Really, I don't think changing databases frequently is typically an issue
for a web application. You are in control of the back-end, typically you
make the database server choice that suits you once and then stick with it.
Changing database servers every week is normally not desired.

We arent talking about frequently. However I know of many cto's weaping when they heard the cost of switching away from
the database they originally based their application on due to tie in to its syntax, its apis etc. ADO.Net is obviously
more open than a direct tie in.

No, I meant caching is built in to both ASP.NET and Cold Fusion. It's not
re-inventing the wheel, it's using the features provided out-of-the-box.
Your reference to assembler seems irrelevant to me. At least, I do not see
its relevance . . .

The db caching mechanisms of ADO.Net/ASP.Net is abysmal from an app. point of view. You will have to write alot of code
to determine the caching strategy etc.
Ofcourse assembler is irrelevant in any RAD situation... but thats an option in the same way as its an option to write
all the code needed to make an out of the box fullfeatured app server in .Net.

ok. He would be porting that business code to the web app.

Ending up with multple copies of code, making maintanance a nightmare.
The world of IT is changing... rapidly. 3 years ago everything had to be written in Java J2EE (is still does in the
larger places btw), today its .Net that is hyped, tomorrow its something else. I would always choose the path where my
business code required the least alterations and no replications of it to be ready for the future.


--
best regards
Kim Madsen
kbm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.components4developers.com

The best components for the best developers
kbmMW - RAD Enterprise class n-tier application server framework
kbmMemTable - High performance memory table
kbmWABD - RAD web development
kbmX10 - RAD house automation


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