Re: Replacing Delphi developers

From: gswork (gswork_at_mailcity.com)
Date: 12/05/03 

Date: 5 Dec 2003 02:40:29 -0800

"David Reeve" <dree4456@big-pond.net.au> wrote in message news:<2mwzb.38495$aT.27714@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MLrzb.148$c54.64@news02.roc.ny...
> [snip]
>
> > However, I'm curious: If Delphi didn't exist, what would be your next
> choice
> > for a 14 year old who seems to be serious about pursuing programming (and
> > whose dad is a stickler for good coding habits)?
>
> Some people can foresee future difficulties, and some need to fall over
> them. Good coding practice is one of those things that many people take on
> board only because they have fallen on their faces through bad coding
> practice.
>
> If you never do more than 1000 line programs, the need for structure and
> order is not mandatory. Indeed, I find that young people can keep track of a
> page of spaghetti better than their elders. But, and here is the rub, there
> comes a time when either because the project has become too large, or often
> because other programmers are called in to assist, that chaos management
> fails and suddenly nothing seems recoverable. Its that 'Oh no, we are going
> to have to re-write it all' sound that management just loves to hear :-).
>
> Delphi, as does VB, encorages 'component jockeys' and you don't have watch
> this ng for very long to come across a poster who has reached the limits of
> what you can do by hanging all your code off visual components. You know the
> ones, 'I've got these variables on this form and I need to access them from
> this other form but if I close the first form .....etc'. However, is this
> such a bad thing? In my experience, the first step is to provide a fun
> environment, and sitting a 14year old down with Turbo C or Turbo Pascal with
> nothing clickable in sight is hardly going to excite. The interface looks
> 'old fashioned', and you are going to sound 'old fashioned' insisting on
> doing everything the hard way. Experience, funnily enough, can only be
> gained with age, not from sitting in lectures, nor from the choice of some
> sort of puritanical programming language that keeps you on the straight and
> narrow ....'No GOTOs here, my son!'. Programming practice is a cultural
> attribute and must be learnt from other programmers, by hanging out on a ng,
> by being part of team working on a multi 100,000 line project. Only then do
> you begin to see that this is elegant code, this is ugly code, and this
> other is a time-bomb waiting to explode.
>
> Dave

I enjoyed reading that. While i agree that learning which has, among
it's rewards, a sense of fun is more likely to succeed - one can have
fun learning how to program all wrong.

I've known vb programmers, more than delphi, who develop quite
elaborate seeming apps with not a module in sight - all code hidden
under VB controls and anywhere sharing is needed, awkward hacks and
globals. Any later attempts to seriously extend or reuse parts of the
project are seriously hindered.

When learning 'freeform' without guidance, a person, a youngster
especially - keen on getting from a->b quickly rather than properly,
tends to choose the path of least resistance, the apparently easier
route. In RAD tools this means drag-drop-dblclick-code. In general
this ends up wasting time- but hopefully also teaching,
experientially, an important lesson. Hence the importance of good
guidance from other programmers, as you say, but also from books and
lectures IMO.

btw, Turbo Pascal was modern, cool and easy once too! Infact, I still
think it's cool! (and freepascal is therefore supercool!)

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