Re: Discovering variable types...

From: J French (erewhon_at_nowhere.com)
Date: 08/14/04 

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:56:52 +0000 (UTC)

On 14 Aug 2004 07:09:57 GMT, vbdis@aol.com (VBDis) wrote:

>Im Artikel <4119f4aa.19757786@news.btclick.com>, erewhon@nowhere.com (J French)
>schreibt:
>
>>Actually her beef is not about Windows
>>- she reckons the VCL components are bloatware, and she is developing
>>using bareboard windows APIs - ie: raw Windows

>>From her point about "messaging" I concluded that she was disappointed by
>Windows at all.

A simple misunderstanding

>>To some extent she has got a point, I personally get a bit hacked off
>>having to add 200k of ... nothing ... to implement a simple progress
>>line in a 60k DLL

>>If you check back you'll see that she has posted some interesting
>>examples of 'windows from thin air'.

>Sorry, I obviously failed to remember these examples.
>Of course a GUI can be implemented with less code than the VCL uses for the
>same purpose. It's okay if someone wants to implement simpler solutions, and is
>capable of doing so. I did so myself, starting with Win 3.0 when nothing but
>the bare Windows API was available.

There was a Delphi1 example that showed how to do it
But I guess you must have been using 'C'

>>Like most things, taken to extremes, they can be absurd, but I reckon
>>there is a case for ultra-light weight controls, and am cranking
>>myself up to look into it myself.

>I agree that the actual VCL can be tweaked to not import unnecessary bloat, and
>that Borland should care a bit more about the dependencies.

It would be useful, under certain circumstances
- normally the advantages of Delphi outweigh the 'minor bloat'
Although, I'm using D4, and I gather the minimum footprint has been
increasing

>>With normal Apps I don't care about a bit of bloat, but for self
>>contained DLLs and rudimentary utilities it is ... annoying.

>It's a matter of the preferences:
> Is it worth the time to tweak a program or DLL, for specific reasons?

It is more a matter of pride, also knowing that once done, it is
re-useable. For a 'normal' App it is, to me, pointless

>In many cases (not with diskettes) the use of packages may be a much cheaper
>solution. E.g. I distributed all my VB3 programs separate from the runtime
>system, and offered the common runtime stuff in a single separate download.

That is Ok if the runtime does not change, however Delphi BPLs and the
pre Windows BASIC run time libraries are/were dangerously tempting to
tinker with - leading to non-DLL Hell

>A last word on the VCL, which has been introduced into this very general
>thread.

>Obviously the VCL provides some benefits, otherwise it were a simple decision
>whether to use the VCL or not to use it. Further discussions about different
>libraries, like OWL, CLX, or selfmade ones, are quite fruitless as long as they
>don't result in an agreed and widely accepted "standard" model and library. VCL
>and CLX are RAD libraries, with CLX also addressing multi-platform issues,
>designed for maximum comfort at the least restrictions. The almost only
>objection may be the size factor, otherwise these libraries should satisfy the
>requirements of everybody. The opinions about the required features between
>these extremes, all or no comfort, IMO are too numerous, so that any library in
>between will only be accepted by few people. I'll not contribute (much) to
>related discussions, though I don't discourage people from discussing
>alternatives - perhaps then they'll find out about the benefits of the Delphi
>supplied libraries ;-)

I am afraid that I do not share your optimism about portability
However, I agree that one established code base is sensible

>I for my part prefer to use platform independent libraries, so that I can still
>use my existing code whenever I stop using Windows. This preference is the
>result from my multiple platform changes in the past 30 years. Other people
>certainly have other preferences, that's what makes the world go round ;-)

Right now I am a few hours off my first 'Featherweight' control, a
simple Window with a progress line and a 'Stop' button
- I think that the effort will be worthwhile
- It is useful having specialized instruments in ones toolkit, even if
they are seldom used, and carefully ring fenced