Re: How to create a new folder in FORTRAN 77?

Richard Maine wrote:
Gary Scott <garylscott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Richard Maine wrote:

Gary Scott <garylscott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Nathan Seese wrote:

Hell, very few people who use Fortran have heard of folders.

oh appears to me that a very large number of Fortran users
use either Unix or Windows nowadays, doncha think??

I think you completely missed Nathan's point. "Folder" is most
distinctly *NOT* a Unix term. To Unix folk (and plenty of Windows folk
as well, if they have been around long enough and.or if they use the
command line enough), those things are "directories" rather than

Folder is extremely commonly used terminology. In fact, the term
"directory" is much less used at LM Aero. If I use the term directory,
I sometimes have to stop and explain it. Many of the common tools we
use such as Livelink use the term folders. It's pretty well engrained
nowadays. And lots of those people use Fortran.

Well, I wasn't arguing about how many people used what terms. I was
just pointing out what Nathan was saying, and that using Unix or
Windows didn't particularly translate into referring to these things as

Your majority of LM Aero users must be pretty young, I'd deduce.
WIndows didn't start using that terminology until WIndows 95, and you
still need to use the "directory" terminology on the command line and
in the API, both of which are more directly related to Fortran than the
GUI. The "folder" terminology adheres more to the GUI, than to the
underlying structure; this is exemplified by some "special folders"
that show up in the GUI, but aren't necessarily actual directories in
the file system.

In Unix, it is even more the case that, while the folder metaphor is
often used in GUIs, it almost never shows up on the command line, API,
or system internals. If you have to explain "directory" to people, they
must not spend much time on the command line or they'd be a bit puzzled
by such things as the cd and mkdir commands - not that Unix command
names don't tend towards puzzlement anyway, but they would be even more
so if you didn't know what a directory was.

I wasn't really meaning to argue the point (though I seem to have
fallen into that above). It just seemed to me that you didn't even
understand what Nathan's point was, independent of the question of
agreeing with it. Or that's how I read your initial reply, and that's
what my answer was addressing.

Well, I went back and read and what I saw was (yes I read the context):

"Hell, very few people who use Fortran have heard of folders."

That seems pejorative towards users of Fortran in general. It may have
been implying that most users of Fortran use Unix or something, but that
was not evident from context, and in any event isn't true. It also
isn't true that "folder" isn't commonly used in Unix tools. We use
plenty of Unix-based tools that use the folder terminology. Those that
continue to predominantly use command line environments are a dwindling
minority in industry.

Nearly all people that I know that use Fortran know and understand what
a "folder" is. Most probably understand its equivalency to a directory,
but the term has fallen out of favor as nearly all usage (and no, not
overwhelmingly young as there are about 100000 out of the 140000 that
are eligible for retirement in the next 5-10 years) is GUI based. Almost
nobody uses command line tools any more. For application development,
it is almost entirely IDE-based with lots of GUI CM tools to check
in/out modules under development perform code reviews, release process
approvals, etc.

I didn't mean it so literally; I probably should've said 'use the term'
instead of 'heard of'. You could basically replace Fortran with just about
anything hacker-related besides 'Windows', 'Mac', 'Java', or 'GUI', and it
would has the same meaning.