Re: As a "general rule"?

rickman wrote:

Paul E. Bennett wrote:
rickman wrote:

Nobody Here wrote:
I design pieces of electronics that have a specification as to how
they should behave in detail, but part of that is the "general rule"
that they should be built in a manner that is safe and employs good
design
and construction practices. That's usually an unspoken "general rule"
but it's there, none the less. It would not be possible for a
specification to detail the every last thing I should do to ensure
that, much of it has to be left to my technical and professional
competence.

Is it really a "general rule" that your designs are "safe"? Isn't that
a requirement?

Requirements for a product being safe will come from the legislative
requirements and may not always be stated in the customers requirements.
However, it would be sheer folly for an engineer not to make his product
as safe as reasonably practicable.

Yes, it would be folly to produce a design that is not safe. That is
why safety must be specified in the requirements and verified. If it
is not in the requirements, how do you verify that the design will
produce a safe product? Do you leave it up to the engineer? Do you
leave it up to the testing group? How do you assure that the product
will be a safe one?

It can sometimes be left to the engineer if the engineer has specialised
knowledge of the application domain. An engineer knowledgable of the
application domain will already be familiar with the legislative
requirements for products sold into that domain and would also know the
standards to which he must work.

It would inded be a folly for the client to assume the engineer might know
the application domain without first establishing the engineers
capabilities and knowledge first.

There have been any number of commercial products that have been
recalled because they cause fires. I would hazard that these products
did not include any rigorous safety requirements. I believe the auto
industry has also been caught not properly applying safety
requirements. Is that result acceptable? Is it really ok to leave it
up to the designer rather than making it a requirement and verifying it
as part of the engineering process?

It is not acceptable for applicable safety standards not to be met in any
product. The fact that we still see such incidents and recalls is a sad
reflection on the way some industries approach the issue of safety or
management of safety related products (a large percentage of total
products).

As to the "employs good design and construction practices" guideline,

[%X]

If ISO9001 is the requirement, then that is what should be specified,
but you said that is what it means to you. I am pretty sure it means
different things to others. So "good design" is an ambigous
requirement. Asking for the designer to 'employ "current best
practice"' is just more weasel words with the same degree of ambiguity.
As soon as you say "legal circles", I realize that it has nearly no
engineering meaning. *Anything* in law is subject to the
interpretation of a judge or jury.

The legal (and legislative) circles will have at least as much bearing on
the implied requirements as the "good engineering practice" has on the
engineering requirements. Some of the clients policy of selection of
supplier companies would, I submit, establish whether or not an engineering
concern had the required capability and management procedures in place.
Once established does this need to be in a specific requirements document.
By virtue of their policy they have already preselected a shortlist of
suitable engineering companies to supply them.

I especially find it amusing that anyone would work off of "unspoken"
rules.

Rules have to be "spoken" of somewhere in order that they become
understood as rules.

Yes, that is my point. It may be "understood", but unless you have it
clearly defined, it may be "understood" in a very different way.

Every day I see the sloppiness in an area where lives can be at stake.
But they keep going in the same direction because they don't have an
incentive to do otherwise. We spend a great deal of time in training
and then fail to follow it. Many even argue against it. I am
surprised that you seem to be doing that.

I don't recall in which country you reside so the laws where you are may be
different from where I am (UK). The UK Consumer Protection Act has some
real nasty teeth in it for those whose products cause injury to the general
populace. I think the designer of an electronic piece-part of a certain
brand of washing machine has found out to his cost.

--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett ....................<email://peb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy .....<http://www.amleth.demon.co.uk/>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-811095
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Eleventh day, eleventh month, eleventh hour
    ... up as a trooper with the Halifax Rifles, ... list of war dead from the village from both wars all that kept going ... engineer, having gone through training in Edmonton. ... there are no safe places there", but he was reassured by his training that ...
    (sci.military.naval)
  • Re: Engineers moving to other fields
    ... The engineer of course needs much more mathematics. ... An engineering specification, thought map, design intent ... importance in clear phrasing as any legal communication. ... Add to that the sort of clarity required by the Safety Case for all major ...
    (comp.arch.embedded)
  • Re: As a "general rule"?
    ... Requirements for a product being safe will come from the legislative ... it would be sheer folly for an engineer not to make his product as ... it would be folly to produce a design that is not safe. ... construction practices" really means. ...
    (comp.arch.embedded)
  • Re: Hiss on line - interesting discovery
    ... You won't get a BT engineer anyway. ... Openreach use trained technicians ... Is it safe to assume you are an engineering graduate? ...
    (uk.telecom)
  • Staff HW Engineer ~ Lead Us to ATCA & Beyond in Your End-to-End Board-Level HW Desig
    ... The senior level hardware engineer looking for the product realization ... and true ownership that comes with full end-to-end board-level hardware ... help us retain dominance in the design of high performance switching ...
    (comp.arch.embedded)
Loading