Re: OOA?

universe_at_covad.net
Date: 01/16/04 

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:45:51 -0500

**NEW** // stuff below

<universe@covad.net> wrote in message news:bec0d$400781da$97cff003

> <universe@covad.net> wrote in message

> >
> > "Robert C. Martin" <unclebob@objectmentor.com> wrote in message

> > > <shanemingins@yahoo.com.clothes> wrote:

> > > >"Robert C. Martin" <unclebob@objectmentor.com> wrote in message
> > > >> Here is an example of my dilemma:

**NEW**
How is it your dilemma?

> > > >> The statement: "An integer is a real number." can be
expressed in an
> > > >> object model as:

> > > >> |Real|
> > > >> A
> > > >> |
> > > >> |Integer|
> > > >>
> > > >> One might view this as an "OO model" of a problem domain.

> See, here's the RMartin/Jeffries baloney about what an OO model is
> about.

**NEW**
The statement "A proton is a lepton" can be expressed in an object
model as:

                           Lepton [Abstract]
                                       |
                                Proton

And so what? It's not true that a Proton is a Lepton AND NEITHER is
an Integer a Real.

A mathematician would disagree that "An Integer is a real number". A
REAL mathematician if anything would say that "A real number is in
part an Integer".

> RCM fools himself or thinks he can fool us into thinking that it's
> widespread somewhere, presumably mathematicians because who cares if
> Joe Blow asserts a math absurdity like that? I'd like for RCM to
show
> who's thinking this way.
>
> Searching Google on 'integer', and 'real', ALL the mathematicians
said
> REAL is made in part of Integer. So if anything Real should inherit
> MULTIPLY from Real and Non-whole, or similar.
>
> > > >> Any programmer who wrote code like that would have to be
taken
> > out
> > > >> back and shot. In a programming environment, real numbers
are
> > > >> composed of several integers. Integers do not inherit from
real
> > > >> numbers.
>
> So the one being shot is likely one whom slings such garbage and
gets
> worked up making UGLY, half-baked, illogical nonsense statements
based
> upon their fairy tale anti-OO modelling prison/hell.
>
> Here's a REAL, not partial mind, mathematician:
>
**********************************************************************
> ***********
> A decimal number that repeats is 0.3333... . A number that
terminates
> is 0.75. In the first case, 0.333... = 1/3, and in the second case
> 0.75 = 3/4. Both of these numbers are rational numbers because they
> can be expressed as the ratio between two integers.
>
> Your daughter was correct in separating the real numbers into two
> mutually exclusive sets: the set of rational numbers and the set of
> irrational numbers. These two sets of numbers have no numbers in
> common: that is, a number is either rational or irrational. Each set
> is also infinite: that is, you can't count the number of numbers
> within either set.
>
> Real Numbers
> / \
> Irrational No. Rational Numbers
>

**NEW**
In UML this is REVERSED:

                                Irrational No. Rational Numbers
                                                     |
                                                     |
                                            Real Numbers

Rational Numbers MULTIPLY inherits from Irrational No. & Rational
Numbers

And this is just WUNDERBAR OO REAL WORLD OBJECT MODELLING!!!!!!

Elliott

> A Venn diagram is a good way to "see" the relations among different
> sets of numbers:
>
>
>
> The set of rational numbers includes the integers, the whole
numbers,
> and the counting (natural) numbers, in that order. Therefore, any
> number that is a natural number is also a whole number, an integer,
> and a rational number.
>
> Thus, starting from the bottom of the tree and proceding up, the
> number 3 is a natural number, a whole number, an integer, and a
> rational number. However, the number 0 is not a natural number - but
> it is a whole number, an integer, and a rational number. The number
> 0.5 is rational only (it terminates). It is not an integer, a whole
> number, or a natural number.
>
> The list your daughter was given contains the names of sets (such as
> the integers and the whole numbers) as well as names of elements
that
> belong to one or more sets (for example, 0 and transcendental
> numbers). Therefore, to complete this classification tree, first
make
> the tree, starting as shown in the text above. Then find examples of
> specific types of numbers and place them in their corresponding sets
> as shown in the Venn diagram.
>
> Your daughter is on the right track. Keep going.
>
> -Doctor Chita, The Math Forum
> Check out our web site! http://mathforum.org/dr.math/
>
> Associated Topics:
> High School Discrete Mathematics
> High School Logic
> High School Number Theory
> High School Sets
> Middle School Logic
> Middle School Number Sense/About Numbers
>
> Search the Dr. Math Library:
> **************************************************
> RMartin owes us a REAL NOT IMAGINARY correction.
>
> Elliott
>
>
> > > >>
> > > >> What this tells me is that "OO Models" of the problem domain
do
> not
> > > >> naturally translate well into an OO program.
> > > >
> > > >I would have said that in the context of your problem domain
the
> > model in
> > > >wrong. As you (as the domain expert) stated : "In a
programming
> > > >environment, real numbers are composed of several integers.
> > Integers do not
> > > >inherit from real numbers."
> > > >
> > > >So if you said that, why would I model:
> > > >
> > > > |Real|
> > > > A
> > > > |
> > > > |Integer|
> > > >
> > >
> > > If I were an expert in the domain of numbers, but not an expert
in
> > the
> > > domain of programming, I would be very likely to draw the above
> > > diagram.
> >
> > RCM KNOWS that's likely, hmm?
> >
> > The fact is in math, Real is thought of as consisting of an
Integer
> > AND MANTISSA (*non*-integer). Integer is thought of as only part
> of
> > a Real.
> >
> > Seems me if a math person knew Real had Integer PLUS MORE, the
math
> > person would NOT be likely to inherit Integer from Real. Right
> > people?
> >
> > If anything a math person might multiply inherit Real FROM
INTEGER
> > PLUS FRACTION (MANTISSA, or similar). Right people?
> >
> > RCM has made a WILD, non-sensical CONJECTURE and then condemns the
> OO
> > modelling 'IS-A' relationship on the basis of this illogical
> > speculation.
> >
> > It appears that RMartin is so frustrated that his constant, almost
> > decade long attempt to blemish, undermine the OO modelling
paradigm
> > (he doesn't use OO modelling recall, just OO objects for
> > compilation/linking dependency management (reduction of such
> > dependency; course he's incredibly apt to say "eliminate") has
> > repeatedly come "a cropper", that he is now willing to say just
> about
> > any lunacy.
> >
> > That is rather than accept the insight that OO domain/use case
> > modelling should be used as the core of the best OO designs. This
> > refusal is perhaps the key ideological - theory about social
> affairs -
> > expression of RCM's determination not to grow in an emotional and
> > spiritual way that accepts and builds upon the truth that OO
> > domain/use case modelling should be used as the core of the best
OO
> > designs.
> >
> > It IS a FACT, and others are operating based upon it, even most
> > XP/Alliance leaders. RMartin was coming to accept the fact that
OO
> > domain/use case modelling should be used as the core of the best
OO
> > designs, when I first encountered him here on comp.object, over 10
> > years ago.
> >
> > RCM's ultimate denial of this fact is a psychological regression
on
> > his part. Due to his earlier progress and the fact that even most
> > leaders of XP/Alliance accept that OO domain/use case modelling
> > should be used as the core of the best OO designs, his system of
> > believing falsehood is creaking and all the time becoming more of
an
> > absurdity. His refusal to accept that OO domain/use case
modelling
> > should be used as the core of the best OO designs is a fantastic
> myth
> > like that of Pinocchio trying to eat despite the dribble on
running
> > down his face, who tries to run despite the pins flying out at all
> > angles. He still even tries to really see at times, but alas uses
> > puppet glasses-the viewpoint of hardcore philosophical pragmatism.
> > Sadly he still tries to pray, despite his dead wooden soul.
> >
> > Only understanding and expanding intellectually and spiritually on
> the
> > basis of the reality of the genuine Nygaard, Dahl, Kay OO
modelling
> > paradigm can rescue RCM, but he's still not ready for whatever
> > reason(s) to accept.
> >
> > Elliott
> > --
> > "Enumerative reasoning is only an
> > adequate mental tool under the severe
> > boundary condition that we only use it
> > very moderately. We should appreciate
> > abstraction as our main mental technique
> > to reduce the demands made upon
> > enumerative reasoning." ~ EW Dijkstra
> >
> >
>
>

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