Re: More buzz wanted

Frans Bouma wrote:
Alvin Ryder wrote:

Hi folks,,

I'm sick of c++, perl and java - now what?

well, I can understand how perl can get on your nerves sometimes ;) ,
but the other two are tools to write software that is maintainable, so
why getting sick of them?


Too many years of hard labor - C++ since 1989, Perl and Java for nearly
10 years.

I run a successful independant software firm, we do web apps and
games. I get a buzz only from the games work whereas Java & web are
seriously depressing me but to say the least I must keep running with
both.

"Change is as good as a holiday" (yeah right) so I'm thinking about
changing web tool sets?

choose the tools which fit the job you have to do. If you get bored,
do something else. Switching tools doesn't make the job more
interesting, it only makes your work alittle different: the same
thinking processes have to be done anyway. So if Java fits the job, use
that. If writing code makes you depressed, and it's not writing code in
general, it might be something else isn't really OK. I too hate writing
code sometimes, but everytime I do that, it's right before a new
release and things which are already polished have to be polished even
more etc. you know the boring work which is mandatory because if you
don't the end result will be of less quality.


Hmm, food for thought. I don't mind Java or web just not the two of
those together. I think my objection comes down to the way they've
implemented their web API's. Everything is so long winded.

They've had a long and tortued path. First Servlets, then JSP, Filters,
TagLibs, then JSTL/EL, then JSF, then Studio Creator ... all they
needed was something as simple as Perl's "here documents" - then you
can deal with the code/html crossroad neatly and trivially.

Perl was great, it made "common things easy" and "difficult things
possible", whereas Java just makes everything verbose and nothing is
quick. The final results are nice enough but the long trip there isn't.

As you own the place, you also understand that these periods are key
for success: avoiding them will make the work easier but will likely
make you go out of business.

I looked at C#, it's very nice but too much like Java. I checkout at
Python and Ruby but I'm torn between them. Should I just wait for
Perl6?

you should take a step back and analyze what's really making you not
liking what you do for a living. It can't be the language you're using
to write the code in: that's just a tool to implement what you've
designed.


Good point, I should step back.

My question is where is all the buzz, "what's hot", especially for web
apps?
mySql + PHP, Python + Zope, Ruby on Rails. A Prolog dialect? Something
else?

ruby on rails is hot, but you have to go for it all the way: scaffold
the app first and build it from there.


I'm hearing good things about Ruby and especially ROR.

I wonder what the bad points are? There must be /some/ pain?


I favor a "best tools (note the plural) for the job approach", then I
glue everything together and make them play nicely, pre-glued is even
better.

#define better
:)

The thing is: 'better' is subjective. If you need maintainable
software, 'better' means something else than the one-shot software
which just has to run at v1.0 and which will never be maintained to v2


Yes I know what you mean about maintainence but I meant something
different ;-)

By "pre-glued is better" - I meant I don't want to be building my own
tool kits (again), I should be free to focus on the application.
Otherwise it becomes two projects in one. Build the tool kit plus build
the project-you-should-be-building, this is overload.

From what I've seen ROR has all the bits in place and ready to roll.

FB


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead developer of LLBLGen Pro, the productive O/R mapper for .NET
LLBLGen Pro website: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for taking time to reply, it gives me food for thought.

I've noticed your C# connection, I'm pretty seriously considering C#
for its DirectX combination. We'll see how it pans out ...

Cheers.

.

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