Re: Offshore Outsourcing

From: Gerry Quinn (gerryq_at_DELETETHISindigo.ie)
Date: 05/18/04

  • Next message: TLOlczyk: "Nonvalidating HTML document" 
    Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:22:30 GMT

    In article <f5dda427.0405152109.6018d3e8@posting.google.com>, spinoza1111@yahoo.com (Edward G. Nilges) wrote:
    >gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie (Gerry Quinn) wrote in message

    >> I left something important out of the equation here, which significantly
    >> changes the implication of the above. You see, the naive interpretation
    >> of the above facts (assuming they are facts) is that the people who were
    >> poor in 1980 are little better off. But that's not what it says at all,
    >> because it doesn't make any statement about whether the top 20% of
    >> households in 2003 were the same households as the top 20% in 1980!
    >> Quite obviously, some households will have changed places over a quarter
    >> century, some households will have disappeared, and some new households
    >> will have appeared. Furthermore, the changes in wealth for a given
    >> household over time will have an impact that is hard to disentangle from
    >> the other effects in any sensible way.

    >The "wet" problem is that the current constituents of the new classes
    >may not be the right sort of people. It is at least possible that
    >inventors of car alarms and gym rats may be selfish and stupid men.

    Or the old money may be noble land-holders, while the new are
    uncouth captains of icky industry? Been there, done that.

    Actually, the market process does at least provide a driving force to
    the effect that those who acquire money must do so in exchange for
    considerations considered beneficial by their fellow man. In this it
    compares somewhat favourably with the alternatives.

    >My "dry" objection is more serious. It is that the Quinn man fails to
    >factor in inequality and therefore doesn't value equality of result in
    >addition to equality of opportunity.

    Having both is not an option. To choose equality of results, indeed, is
    to apply only the second half of Marx's aphorism "from each according to
    his abilities, to each according to his needs". Whether leaving out the
    first bit makes a difference or not is hard to say, because after the
    initial enthusiasm of revolution, the labour camp and the whip were the
    only solutions Marxists were able to find to extract contributions
    consonant with ability, and even this did not work at all well. "They
    pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work" as the more apolitical
    (because more inclined to self-preservation) serfs of the USSR noted.

    >But beyond my wet and dry objections, my most serious objection is
    >that the social mobility of the 1980s and 1990s is not guaranteed to
    >continue.
    >
    >The Bush administration is trying every way it can to secure the
    >actual membership of the new elite and new money by repeal of the
    >so-called "death tax" and the overall tax cuts, which means that we
    >may be in for a century of domination by dyslexic gym rats and former
    >car thieves, who think it's O.K. to abuse prisoners at home and
    >abroad.

    Taxes go up and taxes go down. There is no reasonable ethical
    determinant of an appropriate level. Your criticism is merely that, in
    your somewhat untrustworthy opinion, taxes are currently too low and
    should be moving in the other direction, or that tax cuts should be
    targeted differently. By and large, though, tax cuts by their nature
    can only be targeted at those who pay tax. This rather inevitable
    consequence invariably causes wailing and gnashing of teeth among the
    Left whenever the tax burden is lifted slightly.

    And by the way, do you think that there were no incidents in which the
    soldiers of WWII, whom you praised earlier, abused prisoners?

    - Gerry Quinn

  • Next message: TLOlczyk: "Nonvalidating HTML document"

    Relevant Pages

    • Bushs Tax Cuts Have Worked
      ... Some people just don't want to be confused with facts that contradict their ... Thompson observed that tax cuts work. ... would stimulate the economy. ...
      (alt.politics)
    • Re: Offshore Outsourcing
      ... >The way you change and distort facts is interesting. ... households in 2003 were the same households as the top 20% in 1980! ... the changes in wealth for a given ... The average income of those originally in the bottom 80% is now ...
      (comp.programming)