Re: Advice for mid-life career change (to programming)

"Duane Bozarth" <dpbozarth@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:429CD91C.992561B9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Tony wrote:
>>
> ...
>> > I'm not an expert on CV's, particularly not for US and Canadian ones,
>> > but:
>> >
>> > If I read your CV, I'd have no idea about you, whatsoever - I don't
>> > even
>> > know how old you are - I see no education information (which makes me
>> > wonder
>> > if you were formally educated - not that that's immediatly a negative
>> > thing - it's the cover up that's negative).
>>
>> There is no education because I have no formal education to speak of.
>> Pretty
>> hard to include something you don't have :)
>
> Going to be awfully hard competing in this arena then, I expect (as
> you're finding out). With the glut of applicants for almost any job in
> the field, most of whom are going to have at least Associate degrees and
> a large percentage will certainly have a Bachelor of Science or Arts
> degree, you're at a real disadvantage and is probably a prime reason
> your not getting callbacks.

Actuallly, I got two calls today :)

Many of the positions I'm looking at say "Bachelor's degree or equivalent
experience". I'll admit, though, that I'm focusing a bit more on web
programming - it seems a little more realistic right now.

> I think any personnel person, even if they're even willing to consider a
> non-degreed person for a position will at least want to see what
> education you have. Do you have significant training from your military
> service in appropriate area(s)? If so, I'd list it. It is typically
> well thought of.

Some - I'll go into that..

>> As for the rest - I've ALWAYS been told not to put personal information
>> on a
>> resume, and I've had that echoed recently. That would include age & such.
>
> Age, I'd put...sex/race, no. Some indication of a goal and what you can
> do to help the company achieve their goals that gives an indication of
> your assessment, at least, of your abilities and what is outstanding.

Hm - that sounds a lot like an "Objective", which I have gotten mixed
messages about including. I'll see about putting one together, then.

>> > I don't know what a CompTIA A+ is.
>>
>> Don't know if it's relevant
>
> I don't know what it is, either...perhaps it's significant to those to
> whom you're looking for employment???

Hard to say, when applying for programming - it's a hardware/OS
certification, and is well-recognized and in demand for techs in the US.
Most tech positions I see require an A+ as a minimum - I've even seen tech
jobs asking for HS diploma & A+, nothing else required.

I'm not sure how relevant it is to a programming resume, though.

>> > I happen to know what BrainBench is, but how many people do? It also
>> > does
>> > not say how well you did in the certification (something like "20th
>> > percentile of all Canadians tested" would be a start - along with a
>> > link
>> > to
>> > your certification).
>>
>> The "Master" level isn't enough for that? I've also never thought to put
>> links on a resume - but I'll consider that - it could help, I suppose.
>
> I don't know this either but sounds like reasonable advice from one who
> does, apparently...

Hey - if it's worked for someone else, I'm certainly willing to entertain
the thought myself :)

>> > Check the file properties on Word (332 minutes and 18 edits on that
>> > document, author: someone, Company: someone).
>>
>> Not sure what you're saying ...?
>
> Might want to clean up the other fields so that it looks to anyone who
> cares to look that you put some effort into the use of the application.
> Such as filling in the default document ID's, etc. Make the posted copy
> a "clean" final draft, not a working copy.

Hmm - ok.

> I'd try to post in some format other than as a Woid document, myself. I
> was reluctant to download and open an unknown Word document from an
> unknown individual on an unknown site...didn't until after someone else
> mentioned they had done so...

Actually, every job I've applied for this month has wanted a resume attached
in Word format, specifically. Of course, that's me emailing it to them, not
them downloading it from a website. But Word is the standard, at least from
what I've seen.

> PDF format, maybe, would be an alternative?
>
>> > Why do you say: "Manage and operate blah blah comptuer." Why not:
>> > "Successfully managed/operated installation's mainframe - which
>> > consisted
>> > of
>> > liasing with various departments, blah blah..." "Provided <insert
>> > upbeat
>> > positive adjective here> training..." "Implemented successful custom
>> > test
>> > programs which <insert positive descriptive comment about the positive
>> > effect of said program>.
>>
>> OK - I can look some of that over, see about rephrasing. Seems to me like
>> you're basically saying it's dry?
>
> Yes, and it doesn't emphasize what you did to help the company for whom
> you were working achieve <they're> objectives. The whole thing sounds
> too much to me like trying to impress w/ technical jargon, etc., when
> there really isn't much of technical depth there...

Good point - I'll be looking that over in quite a bit of detail, then.

>
> Same comment as above....
>
>> > You know 'Outlook Express' and 'Acrobat' - why are they even mentioned?
>>
>> OK...
>
> Agree...<anybody> can learn to use shrinkwrap software. Unless you're
> interviewing to be a data entry person for an accounting department
> using Quickbooks or some such routine application I see no need for such
> petty stuff...

But stuff like Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc - or other software specifically
mentioned by the company in their listing would be good to include, right?

>> I've long thought the resume is a major part of the problem, and you
>> appear
>> to be confirming that - it's just really hard to know what to do with it,
>> especially when I keep getting contradicting info.
>>
>> Do you think a professional resume service would be worthwhile?
> ...
>
> I'm very leery of the "professional" services that want $$ up
> front---for the most part I think they're just rip-offs. There are
> services from places like Community Colleges, sometimes grant
> organizations that get $$ to support areas that have had large
> displacements, etc., that can help and that aren't just in it to enrich
> themselves.

I didn't think about the Community Colleges - and our local one DOES have a
good career counseling department. And, they're used to working with
"re-entry" students in their 30's and 40's.

> There are certainly many resources available at the local library...
>
> Good luck, but you've bit off a real challenge being essentially
> self-taught in today's competitive environment. I'd reiterate the idea
> of looking for an organization of similar purpose to those you've been
> working with that might have need for such services as you could
> provide. The idea of writing a grant to help fund yourself w/ a
> nonprofit has been known to work in my experience w/ a cousin of mine
> and some other acquaintances, as well.

Not too sure about that whole process, but I have been thinking of simply
doing some work for local non-profits. There is a non-profit resource center
in town that would be a great place to network with them and seriously build
my resume. Chances are good I could even hook up with local chapters of some
big, national organizations. Free work most likely, but probably still
rather impressive to have clients like "The American Red Cross", "UNICEF",
or "Make-a-Wish Foundation" on your resume, you think?


.

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