Re: Interesting article by Joel Spolsky: The Perils of JavaSchools

In article <1136550849.114794.145020@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
wookiz@xxxxxxxxxxx says...
> Gerry Quinn wrote:

> > It's ironic to see the somewhat trivial concepts of pointers and
> > recursion feted as challenging, purely on the basis that certain
> > programmers are unfamiliar with their use. [And surely Java supports
> > recursion as well as any language?]

> Misses the point.

> Most Java(any imperative language) programmers will instinctively opt
> for an iterative solution and will only use recursion when they are
> forced to.

If that's the point, it's not a very good one. A language that allows
you to pick appropriate solutions is better than one that forces you
into unsuitable ones.

(Actually I would expect many beginning programmers will be over-
excited by the concept of recursion, and will use it in inappropriate
circumstances.)

> Iterative solutions don't scale well to increasingly complex data
> structures. In those situations your imperative programmer takes a lot
> longer to produce buggier, less concise solutions, because they are not
> practised in recursive techniques.

Then the solution is to practice the techniques, but there's no need to
abandon Java in favour of a toy language that is limited to them and no
other.

> > Then comes the extolling of functional languages such as Lisp, which
> > have more advocates than useful programs written in them. It expands
> > the brain and makes you a better person, or so we're told. I've heard
> > colonic irrigation does the same.

> Misses the point again.
> The ability to think recursively is an important skill for a programmer
> and indeed problem solvers at large.

Yes, it's very useful. And you can learn it from Java, or Basic for
that matter.

- Gerry Quinn


> Functional languages force you to acquire that skill because thats the
> only way of getting things done.
>
> Once you have that skill it transfers to understanding algorithms, and
> to programming competently in languages that do have "useful programs
> written in them" like XSLT which alot of imperative programmers make a
> complete mess off..
>
>
.

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