Re: Are there any non-gifted scientists?!?!?

From: John Schoenfeld (j.schoenfeld_at_programmer.net)
Date: 04/29/04 

Date: 29 Apr 2004 03:52:23 -0700

bwvbabygotbach@netscape.net (Der Fugue) wrote in message news:<5f6b0df.0404282023.259a4b36@posting.google.com>...
> I'm a high school student, about to go to college to study math and/or
> computer science. I'm basically a nerd, been interested in
> programming for a while but looking back I had a pretty distorted view
> of what programming actually was when I was hacking away at code in
> elementary school and middle school (I'm sure plenty of you had
> similar experiences). More recently I've picked up math as a hobby
> and become more of a science nerd than a computer nerd.

Do programming. I know a guy who graduated just over a year ago from
comp. sci. and makes 45% more than the Physics Professors at the
institution he attended (fairly respectable for his field of study)
and 25% more than his comp. sci professors.

> Here's my dilemma: I ain't that smart. Failed my school's gifted test
> each time I took it, usually score in the 120s on online IQ tests
> (except a 150 on the obviously rigged iqtest.com test).

The true result of an IQ test is if the subject comes out
understanding that IQ tests are useless, obviously.

> That alone
> wouldn't be a tragedy, except for the fact that my high school grades
> are pretty average... at least for an honors kid.

Again, these grades only serve to get you beaurocratically certified
and admitted into an institution of "higher education" - don't expect
to learn anything there, it's just another expensive level or
beaurocratic certification (an expensive day care centre).

> This year,
> schoolwork has become my *obsession*, and while my grades improved
> from B's and C's to A's and B's, these weren't quite the grades I was
> looking for, especially considering my courseload is rather light.
 
> Given, I'm not going to become an outstanding student overnight. Most
> students I'm competing with have been working hard since elementary
> school, so I should expect to have to work much harder than them to
> obtain similar grades until I "catch up".

That guy had the same problem you refer to, his strategy was to
1. Get industry experience.
2. Take the initiative and learn _USEFUL_ skills (not the crap they
teach).

and the strategy succeeded with astonishing success. I can vouch for
that!

> But the problem is that I
> may never truly "catch up", especially if I'm taking difficult classes
> with really bright kids in college, because I may simply not have the
> intellectual ability. Talent in math and the sciences exists, it
> certainly isn't completely accounted for by IQ but I'm sure IQ plays a
> large role in it.

This guy almost got fired from his place of work because some of his
colleagues (who graduated from some from the most prestigous technical
colleges on this planet) were pissed off at his remuneration package -
they had 5-8 years exp and he just 1. So much for being "gifted".

> I've met a lot of people with similar intellectual interests as I do
> and read many a usenet IQ debate among such people, and I've yet to
> encounter a person successful in mathematics or a "hard" science who
> does not have a great deal of talent in the subject. This usually
> means IQ > 130.

That's all crap.

>
> Here are a few interesting figures that someone will probably bring
> up:
> - Richard Feynman's IQ was 125. James Gleick's biography, page 30:
> "Still, his score on the school IQ test was a merely respectable 125."
> I'd wager this result was some sort of fluke, but regardless of his
> IQ per se, it's clear that from a young age Feynman had a considerable
> amount of talent in math and science. Unfortunately that cannot be
> said of an IQ-120-something person such as myself.
> - The average IQ of a Nobel Prize winner (not sure whether this is in
> any field or in the "physical sciences") is somewhere in the 120
> range. I heard this from the "Test The Nation" televised IQ test
> (which I did and got a 123 on, although the actual score would be a
> bit higher given it started at age 18). Anyway, I've done some
> research and never found where this statistic actually comes from.
> Can anyone enlighten me?

Crap.

> As has often been said to me and as I'm sure many of you folks will
> advise, it's all about hard work. But even if I could force myself to
> work twice as hard as everyone else and get the grades and coursework
> necessary to go to grad school, what do I do next when the work
> becomes even more challenging?
>
> I value education. In fact, being non-gifted gives me even more of a
> reason to value education... so I can work toward reaching my true
> potential (albeit a somewhat limited potential). Why should I work my
> ass off studying something that comes easy to others, when I could
> just go into something less... intellectual demanding.
>
> Speaking of certain intellectual demands, would I be better off
> choosing a different scientific field? Maybe my IQ would prevent me
> from being a mathematician, but how about something like, say,
> psychology? Maybe that's a bad example... would anyone care to offer
> a list of "low-IQ" fields?
>
> Why should I be interested in math and science in the first place? It
> seems that most people with "average" IQs (say, within 1 s.d. from the
> mean) have little or no qualms about being average. They're more
> concerned with earthly things, such as their appareance, crappy music,
> television, etc. I like to think that I've elevated myself from this.
> Not that I'm any better than these people, just that I'm not a
> materialist. I've made the pursuit of knowledge the most important
> pursuit in my life, because knowledge combats ignorance. Knowledge is
> our criteria for evaluating new knowledge, for making decisions and
> setting priorities. I've chosen to study math and science namely
> because I'm fascinated by these subjects. But additionally, I often
> think to myself that I won't have a better opportunity than now to
> gain an understanding of these subjects. My dad is in his forties and
> can't have more than a middle school understanding of math. There's
> nothing stopping me from switching to some liberal arts major, placing
> out of calculus, and taking the minimum number of science electives
> via "xxxx for non-majors" courses. But what would I think of that
> decision when *I'm* 40? I could pick up a graduate level psychology
> paper right now and comprehend a pretty good deal of it. But give me
> or just about any other (sane) human being a paper on "the topology of
> k-manifolds [insert more geordi-from-star-trek-talk here]" and there's
> no way in Hell I'll comprehend a bit of it.
>
> At the same time, I wonder if I'm going to be wasting arguably the
> best years of my life studying the stuff. I guess the big issue for
> me is *how much* commitment I want to put into it. Obviously I need
> to keep my life balanced with other interests and reserve some time
> for fun no matter what I decide to do.
>
> Wow I've spent a lot of time writing this post. Anyway, I'd be really
> interested in your replies. I'm particularly interested in knowing if
> there is anyone reading this who is/was in a similar situation as I
> am. And referring back to the subject text, I'm wondering if anyone
> can name some names. Name me a few respected mathematicians, computer
> scientists, physicists, any field will work actually, who are not
> "gifted".
>
> I better be getting to bed...

Your obsession with IQ's is a reflection of your unfounded faith in
the system.
ALMOST ALL academic fields (medical, some science, political,
religious, political) are USELESS BEAUROCRACIES. Once you understand
that, then all your concerns will be addressed.

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