Re: [OT,META] the lunatics among us (was): PROOF that emulators are impossible

From: Barb Knox (see_at_sig.below)
Date: 05/14/04 

Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:32:40 +1200

In article <c1944aa39ad20a4ecbf2dc5ad717eff6.48257@mygate.mailgate.org>,
 "Kent Paul Dolan" <xanthian@well.com> wrote:

>"Barb Knox" <see@sig.below> wrote:
>
>> "Kent Paul Dolan" <xanthian@well.com> wrote:
>>> "|-|erc" <gotchy@beauty.com> wrote:
>
>> >[riotously funny claims of being supernatural]
>
>>> Herc, posting long boring lists of URLs pointing
>>> to turgid, unreadably insane, or entirely
>>> tangential information is the Arthur T. Murray
>>> gig. You should stick to your strengths: simple
>>> declarative sentences so funny to the saner
>>> reader as to bring tears to the eyes from the
>>> pain of laughing so hard at you, each one a
>>> self-standing jewel in its own right.
>
>> I'm getting ethical qualms about Herc-baiting. In
>> Victorian London an entertaining Sunday afternoon
>> could be had by visiting the Hospital of Saint
>> Mary of Bethlehem (a.k.a. "bedlam") and watching
>> the schizophrenics cavort; if they were too quiet
>> then shouting at them or banging on their cages
>> would often stir them to action. Nowadays we view
>> such behaviour as rather unenlightened, to say the
>> least.
>
>> Well, aren't we in essentially the same position
>> when we actively provoke an under-medicated
>> schizophrenic like Herc into doing his thing
>> before an audience of thousands? I'm not being
>> judgemental here, just trying to sort out the
>> issue for myself.
>
>> What's your take on this?
>
>Me? I've been on the inside of Bedlam, looking out,
>for 19 and a fraction years now. Gibes among the
>inmates are fair game. Why in the world should my
>opinion guide your ethical choices? I have problems
>enough letting it guide mine.

Well, I've found that seriously considering different points-of-view has
helped me clarify my thinking about various issues.

>I don't, tremendously, mind that Herc is delusional
>in whatever sense he incarnates that term.

He is what he is. My qualms are about appropriate ways to respond to him (if
at all).

>I have a first cousin who is schizophrenic, and
>whatever the basis of Herc's delusions, I doubt that
>schizophrenia is among them. Schizophrenia doesn't
>tend to be one of the illnesses that leaves one
>verbally functional.

I don't have a DSM-IV handy, but AFAIK there are some schizophrenics who are
very verbal, although admittedly for many of them it comes out as barely
intelligible "word salad".

And Herc certainly does exhibit some classical schizophrenic delusions:
grandeur, persecution, identity.

>I don't, particularly, feel a need to put a defining
>name on what is wrong with Herc. I suspect, from the
>prevalence of the illness across Usenet, that it is
>in any case some new thing aroused by having a
>perceptibly immense audience, not yet in the
>psychological classification scheme.

That's an interesting idea!

>I do, tremendously, mind that Herc and his
>act-alikes in many newsgroups suck the utility out
>of Usenet by wasting so much of participants' time
>correcting the ranting and mendicating they do, that
>much of the promise of Usenet goes missing.
>
>That the more functional types could improve matters
>by adopting enough self-discipline to ignore the
>nutters rather than engaging in being the recipient
>of endless "repeatedly provoked monologues" from
>them is only the promptings of common sense.
>
>In reality, none of us are that sane, and the urge to
>rip the red painted monkey to shreds hasn't fallen
>away with whatever morals we've supposedly evolved
>compared to our cousin apes.

Ouch.

>We do have one moral step above the bar bangers of
>Bedlam, at least to the ones free to walk away:
>there is nothing restraining Herc to stay and listen
>to our teasing; he also is free to walk away. Come
>to that, he and his act alikes are usually urged to
>depart in unmistakable, forceful terms, repeated
>frequently enough to leave no doubt of the sincerity
>of the invitations.

For sure.

> Thus, if he is still here, it is
>because he finds some self-worth gain in the
>treatment he is receiving. Would you deny that to him?

Maybe, since if he isn't competent to assess what's actually good for him then
we shouldn't be guided by his assessments.

>xanthian. 

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