Re: Zenkin's paper on Cantor (reply of Dr. Zenkin)

From: Eray Ozkural exa (examachine_at_gmail.com)
Date: 11/19/04 

Date: 19 Nov 2004 08:52:37 -0800

Excuse me, but I want to make it really clear that compared to
Longley, Mr. Dolan is a reasonable person. As a matter of fact, I find
Mr. Dolan quite knowledgeable in a number of subjects, but he does not
seem to appreciate the importance of civil discussion on public
forums. Even when agreeing with somebody, he will assert irrelevant
personal statements. He seems to be on an excess amount of caffeine
constantly.

When criticized properly, I will honor it. I have taken much of Mr.
Dolan's criticism seriously. However, he seems to know very little
about the debate about actual/potential infinity which is a
significant *philosophical* matter going back to the ancient Greece.
Such matters are not to be left to those who accept the validity of
whatever philosophy is implicitly assumed in their particular school
of mathematics, *without* ever questioning. There is no need to state
that it will be pointless to discuss foundational subjects with
persons who cannot question them.

Incidentally, many people who call themselves "constructivists" come
around saying that constructivism has no trouble saying that a Turing
Machine has *actually* an infinite tape, which makes the discussions
all the more fuzzy! There are many versions of constructivism and
intuitionism, and it seems that we fail to acknowledge the *exact*
metaphysical assumptions in these versions when we use the suitcase
words.

I have had such a discussion with an extremely intelligent and
experienced mathematician. He told me that PCs are not Turing
Machines, because they have "an infinite tape". I think he did not
know anything about descriptive complexity. This infinite portion of
the tape consists entirely of blank symbols, and therefore has
descriptive complexity O(1), which is easily realized by a physical
system. When I told him about Ullman's indefinite growing argument, he
objected "But when the universe is filled up, it cannot grow any more!
Then, it is not infinite", to which I responded "Yes, but there is
*nothing* that is larger than the universe." To assume the contrary
would be theology, which I despise.

Regards,

"JPL Verhey" <matterDELminds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<419cd7d4$0$44068$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>...
> "David Longley" <David@longley.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Jpfd7EJk2LnBFw1T@longley.demon.co.uk...
> > In article <419c4735$0$44080$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>, JPL
> > Verhey <matterDELminds@hotmail.com> writes
> >>
> >>"David Longley" <David@longley.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>news:ogGFp6BAYAnBFwB6@longley.demon.co.uk...
> >>> In article <320e992a.0411171745.ba123df@posting.google.com>, Eray
> >>> Ozkural exa <examachine@gmail.com> writes
> >>>
> >>> This is false.
> >>
> >>Haha..
> >>Well DL, there is no one understanding you better than Dolan.
> >>
> >>> --
> >>> David Longley
> >>
> >>
> > And there's an illustrative example of why it's false. Most people, at
> > any age, don't take criticism well (if at all), and very very few
> > actively seek it out even when it's in their own best interests to do
> > so. It's an essential skill of the professional to court criticism.
> > It's the sine qua non for learning.
>
> I just loath you, DL. You are on the same list with people who would say
> I'm an heretic and sinner, and am instructed that in order to understand
> that I should read the Koran.
>
> Longley Uh Ackbar!!

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Zenkins paper on Cantor (reply of Dr. Zenkin)
    ... Longley, Mr. Dolan is a reasonable person. ... significant *philosophical* matter going back to the ancient Greece. ... because they have "an infinite tape". ...
    (sci.math)
  • Teleportation knowledge analizer of the internet matirx! ITs a
    ... INFINITE YESTERDAY TODAY ... Matter moves so fast that it intergreats and deintergreats faster ... Everything in the world can be made nano sized,and ... it self as it bounces there are many speeds that can be control and ...
    (sci.space.history)
  • Teleportation knowledge analizer of the internet matirx! ITs a
    ... INFINITE YESTERDAY TODAY ... Matter moves so fast that it intergreats and deintergreats faster ... Everything in the world can be made nano sized,and ... it self as it bounces there are many speeds that can be control and ...
    (sci.space.station)
  • Re: Logarithm of transfinite numbers
    ... with the false assumption that there is a last iteration before the ... You want to change the problem and ignore the labels, ... It doesn't matter. ... iteration leads to an infinite number of balls at the end. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: What IS Intelligence
    ... wouldn't it require infinite time and infinite ... For an infinite universe you consider just the size of any particular region ... useful to take the opposite view of shrinking matter; ... region stays fixed size while matter shrinks; ...
    (comp.programming)