Re: Unbounded Space

From: Stephen Harris (cyberguard1048-usenet_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 12/03/04 

Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 16:36:33 GMT

"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:b7Vrd.434656$wV.302842@attbi_s54...
>
>
> Eray Ozkural exa wrote:
>
>>
>> What is this naive argument supposed to show? What does the actual

What all of them show, that you are an uneducated dummy.

>> size of the universe has to do with the fact that the tape is

Nothing. Physical memory takes substance. There is a fininte amount
of matter in the universe. Because the universe may continue to expand
forever does not create any additional matter.

If every particle in the universe, all of matter, could somehow be
used for memory of a physical computer, the computation that
could then be performed would still be physicall constrained.

I don't know what part of this you don't get. There are finite numbers
large enough so that if you stored each digit on a physical particle,
the digits that needed storing so that the number could be represented,
still finitely, go beyond all the matter in the universe. Again matter in
the universe is not infinite, it is finite.

Turing conceived of an abstract or imaginary tape. It can store
more digits than there are particles in the universe. Therefore it
can compute more finite digits of a number such as Pi, than any
physical computer, PC.

Another mistake you make is when you ask that absurd question
if a TM is a PC. There is only one correct answer, No. That you
even think a poll should be taken, is evidence of your ignorance.
You are not in some graduate program. You are a brain-damaged,
or chemically imbalance, highschool dropout. It is a fact that a
TM is not a PC, just like it is a fact that an odd number is not even.
If you get somebody to agree with you, it just means they are clueless
like you.

You are bright but certainly not a genius. You are poorly educated.
You are mentally ill because you think your opinion has any foundation
for being considered by yourself or others as worth as much as rat***.

>> unbounded? (And we are not even certain that the space in our universe
>> is finite!) A TM can compute Pi in no finite universe. That's not

It has nothing to do with space being finite, but matter being finite.
That gives you away as not having taken highschool physics.

"A TM can compute Pi in no finite universe."

You've graduated to halfwit. Nowadays an infinite universe does
not mean infinite matter. A TM does not compute in any physical
universe whatsoever, finite or infinite. It computes in an abstract,
non-physical universe so it does not have physical constraints. It
can not run out of what serves in place of physical memory. A
physical computer operating in the physical universe must run out
of physical memroy because matter is finite and matter is what is
used for storage. And this abstract idea does not require
mathematical Platonism! Abstract and concrete stand on their own.

>> specific to our universe. But the ID of a TM is always finite. It
>> never becomes infinite.
>

It doesn't need to become infinite. Potentially infinite means that it
can forever grow finitely larger and larger. The TM can compute
a finitely larger sequence of Pi because there are no physical
limitation imposed on a TM, while PCs have physical constraints.

Most parts of the TM have approximate realizations physically.
Not the tape! The tape can never be physically realized. That is
where the analogy between a TM and PC will always break down.

It is not just Pi. The square roots of prime numbers, which are infinite,
has an algorithm, that can produce a very large sequence of digits,
which at any given point is finite. This finite amount of digits that
the TM can compute can alwasy exceed the finite amount of digits
that a PC can compute. If the PC can compute X amount of digits
using all the storage/particles for memory in the known universe,
a TM can compute the finite amount X + 1 or X +2 etc.

Since there are an infinite number of primes and their square roots,
there are an infinite number of instances in which a TM can compute
_more finite_ digits of any given such operation than a PC can compute.
These are all computable numbers. I'm not saying the TM is computing
a non-computable number, but a larger finite portion of a computable
number. I think that "intractable" may be the word that describes
limits on computable physical calculations (PC) that have physical
constraints impacting the completion of some calculation, not enough
time or memory. If you think additional matter is being created in
the universe just because the expansion may be infinite, get your
Nobel prize first and then I will concede your assumption of an
infinite amount of adding available "sufficient" memory to a physical PC.

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