# Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?

*From*: Peter Olcott <NoSpam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>*Date*: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:23:33 -0600

On 2/8/2012 7:53 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

On 2/8/2012 4:50 PM, Peter Olcott wrote:On 2/8/2012 8:08 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:Patricia Shanahan wrote:On 2/8/2012 3:52 AM, Peter Olcott wrote:On 2/7/2012 11:30 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:On 2/7/2012 7:52 PM, Peter Olcott wrote:The TM outputs a different integer number every time that it isOn 2/7/2012 9:26 PM, Joshua Cranmer wrote:On 2/7/2012 8:30 PM, Peter Olcott wrote:On 2/7/2012 8:15 PM, Joshua Cranmer wrote:On 2/7/2012 7:51 PM, Peter Olcott wrote:Yet since it has no way to access the meaning of this output itThe point is that no halting machine simulator can possibly

modify the

state a halt analyzer based on the output of this halt analyzer

if it

does not have access to the meaning of the output of this halt

analyzer.

And the point is that there must exist a simulator which does have

access to the output of the halt analyzer.

has no

way to create the halting problem.

There exists a machine which could access the meaning. That's the

entire point.

It could not possibly have any way to determine the meaning of any

hidden key if this meaning is never provided, thus the Halting

Problem

can no longer be constructed.

Sure it can. All we need is for the meaning to be a computable

function

of the final state of your machine. We don't know *which* TM computes

it, but that TM does exist.

If there is at least one TM that computes a Yes/No answer to "does

this

TM computation halt" from the final state of your machine, there is

a TM

computation that halts if, and only if, your machine says it does not

halt.

We don't know which TM it is that your machine gets wrong, but that

does

not change the fact that it exists.

Patricia

executed. The meaning of the integer number is only understood by this

TM and the human executing it. A TM simulator would contain the TM that

knows the meaning of this integer, yet it would not and could not know

the meaning itself, thus would have no way of knowing where to attach

the infinite loop graph cycle.

Please show the TM state machine lines you would use to implement that.

Ignoring the fact that such a machine would not represent an algorithm,

and is getting very far from being a decider for any language, let's

consider its practical use.

Suppose I were back to writing compilers. The program being compiled is

syntactically correct, using only libraries the compiler can find etc.

The user has checked the box for "report failure to halt", so the

compiler runs the great halting detection program. It gets back an

integer.

Now what?

Patricia

So when a software system returns a encrypted result this software

system is no longer considered to meet the definition of an algorithm?

Exactly what would be lacking?

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the answer

was going to change from run to run, independently of any input.

If the result is encrypted, and could be decrypted by someone with a

key, then the actual result is a computable function of the result your

machine produces, there exists a TM that could compute the actual result

using your TM, and there exists a TM whose halting would be mispredicted.

Patricia

The answer will be encrypted differently from run to run such that any TM simulator would never know what the answer means. This prevents any TM simulator from creating the Halting Problem.

.

**Follow-Ups**:**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Patricia Shanahan

**References**:**Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Joshua Cranmer

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Patricia Shanahan

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Joshua Cranmer

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Joshua Cranmer

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Joshua Cranmer

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Joshua Cranmer

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Joshua Cranmer

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Patricia Shanahan

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Patricia Shanahan

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Patricia Shanahan

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Peter Olcott

**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?***From:*Patricia Shanahan

- Prev by Date:
**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?** - Next by Date:
**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?** - Previous by thread:
**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?** - Next by thread:
**Re: Basis for bypassing the Halting Problem ?** - Index(es):