Re: Cross platform Java GUI design

On Apr 21, 6:33 pm, t...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
"matthewoconnor1...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <matthewoconnor1...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
Hi

We have been working on a Mac version of a java based desktop video
tagging product, and are coming slightly unstuck on UI design. We've
changed the UI and I'd be really interested/grateful to get your
feedback, comments and suggestions for improvement.

I'll elaborate a bit here to explain where we are at. This was
originally written as a Windows product,  but was picked up by Apple.
As I'm sure you'll recognise, its written in Java and as such will
naturally suffer in comparison to other native Mac products in the
video arena. The plan is to rewrite in Cocoa, but commercially
speaking, we need a bit more traction with what we've got to justify
the cost, and obviously to ensure the improved user logic and ease of
use are correct before we green light the rewriting.

The thinking is that if the design is right for the Mac, we can
replicate if for the PC.

So I'm effectively asking you how to cosmetically enhance YourView-
written in Java- to appeal to a Mac audience with a view to porting
that to Windows.

Well, the most challenging thing, as far a Java applications ported to
Windows is concerned, is to get the menu setup correct.  There are a
number of differences, which range from the trivial ("Preferences..." on
the Mac, "Preferences" on Windows), to more fundamental:  A single,
application-wide menu.

There is information about porting available on the Mac developers site,
as well as other Java-related web site.  Apple, in particular, has some
sample code and Adapter classes to make this a bit easier:

<http://developer.apple.com/samplecode/OSXAdapter/index.html>

<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Java/Conceptual/Java14Develo...>

<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Java/Conceptual/Java14Develo...>

The open-source VassalEngine (http://www.vassalengine.org/) project has
been working on getting Mac-style menus to work, but it has proven
rather trickier than Apple's documentation would suggest.  The hard part
is that if you use multiple JFrames in your application, you have to
make sure they all have a JMenuBar that has the same content -- but it
has to be a different object, since menu bars can't be shared.  There
were also some issues related to dialogs as well that were problematic.
It has pretty much required a re-write of the entire menu-handling
system for that particular application in order for it to work properly.

There are also other behavioral aspects, such as Mac applications
remaining active and running, even if their last window has been
closed.  You need to quit the application to get it to go away, not just
close all the windows.

There are aspects that are work in progress- the star ratings you see
will appear as just 1 star with a dropdown to represent the 5, and the
media controls are not the finished article to name a couple- again,
hit me with suggestions on this one, either on list or PM

The screenshots can be found here- this is the YourView classifier
(where the tagging takes place) :

http://yourview.tv/images/YourViewplayer.tiff

Well, there isn't anything that seems out of the ordinary here.  Except
that we don't see where the menu is.

The hard part is that the Mac experience is not only a particular visual
look, but a method of operation that is in many ways different from
windows.  Some of these differences are rather subtle, so you might not
even think of them at first.  For example, on a Mac, you can open
documents in a program (running or not) by dragging them to an icon on
the dock.  In windows, you can't drop documents on task bar tabs, you
have to actually drag them onto an open window of the application.

On Macs many things are moved by dragging and (except for text), not by
cut-and-paste.  This is particularly true of moving or copying files.
The copy-and-paste method from Windows seems really foreign to me as a
Mac user.

Mac users tend to work with more open windows at once.  On windows, the
use of full-screen windows is more common.

Finally, you should avoid, as much as possible, the use of modal
dialogs.  This is not really a Mac-specific thing, but non-modal dialogs
are much friendlier from a user perspective than modal dialogs.  They
are harder to implement, but users like them better.

I would also make sure to look at the Human Interface Guidelines from
Apple:

<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OS...>

and I would also recommend reading some of Bruce Tognazzini's columns:

<http://www.asktog.com/>

--
Thomas A. Russ,  USC/Information Sciences Institute- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thomas,

Thanks for your contribution, that is extremely helpful and sound
advice. The look and feel of something that can sell into the Mac
market is one thing, but its certainly

The hard part is that the Mac experience is not only a particular visual
look, but a method of operation that is in many ways different from
windows.

the method of operation that has as much of an impact, and something
that needs work on in some aspects of YourView. The fact it is written
in Java and looks like a Windows product is of prominent importance to
us as we'd like it to become as comparable as possible to the
competition, most of which is written in Cocoa. The commercial
decision on whether or not to make the step into Cocoa then becomes an
easier one to make.

Well, there isn't anything that seems out of the ordinary here. Except
that we don't see where the menu is.

What type of Mac products that use a menu style do you think are worth
looking at? And do you have any tips for helping to bring what we have
appearance wise closer to the demands of the market?

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.



Matthew

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Apple Notebook
    ... die gerne mit Unix Befehlen arbeiten und sich freuen, ... mich stören weder UNIX-Befehle (neben Mac OS X benutze ich selbst z.B. u.A. auch HP-UX, UNIX ist für mich also kein Fremder) noch Leute, die mit ihrem Mac zufrieden sind. ... Mich stört auch nicht, dass Windows mit Ausnahme von Windows Server 2003 R2 keine UNIX-Befehle kann, genauer gesagt geht mir das ziemlich am Allerwertesten vorbei, einfach weil der Bedarf nicht vorhanden ist. ... Und das nicht nur deswegen, weil Apple schlichtweg keinen professionellen Support anbietet, sondern weil die Masse der wichtigen Anwendungen eben nicht unter Mac OS X läuft, sondern unter Windows oder allenfalls noch Linux. ...
    (de.comp.sys.notebooks)
  • Re: I really do like OS X but . . .
    ... I think he was pointing out that Microsoft has to ensure backwards compatibility with the older MS-DOS based versions of Windows, which introduces a number of problems. ... But, of course, Mac users have no choice but to upgrade... ... support perspective too. ... even going to try to claim the PPC port of gcc is anywhere near as good ...
    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)
  • Re: Aqua is a Plastic Cube!
    ... if WPF were put into Apple's old Mac OS X ... the problem this platform has is that it's rather vaguely defined, ... better than it is on X Windows or Windows XP. ...
    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)
  • Re: Are you folks MAC or PC?
    ... > virtually every version of DOS and Windows. ... > For processing photos I have switched back to Mac, ... Nobody makes stuff that looks as cool as what Apple does. ... > to work with Windows machines. ...
    (rec.photo.digital)
  • Re: I really do like OS X but . . .
    ... I think he was pointing out that Microsoft has to ensure backwards compatibility with the older MS-DOS based versions of Windows, which introduces a number of problems. ... Would it help if Apple had completely removed version numbers from their ... But, of course, Mac users have no choice but to upgrade... ... Intel, like they had with IBM and Freescale. ...
    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)