Re: Help me!! Why java is so popular

In article <1171223518.662504.243930@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"raddog58c" <raddog@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:29 am, nukl...@xxxxxxxxxxxx (nukleus) wrote:
In article <PradnaFt-YwRK1PYnZ2dnUVZ_g-dn...@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Lew

<l...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Lew wrote:
Do you use Windows?

raddog58c wrote:
I think I may have answered this, but if not I use Windows, Solaris,
AIX and Linux currently for Java, C++, C and Perl development.
... Pretty wide range of stuff overall, which gives me both good and
bad perspectives on things.

My point is that those who use Windows already accept bloatware and the
concomitant hit on performance.

I wouln't rush to use the performance issue
if I were a java freakazoid.

It may not be such an impediment to platform
effectiveness as some may think.

I agree with this.
Not only bloatware, but MONSTERWARE,
with a foot print of a inter-galactic space ship.

But what I like about Microsucks development environment
is that it is very intuitive and very simple in terms
of assisting you with many things you normally do,
starting from editing and down to compilation, run time,
debugging, and you name it. You can edit the HTML or
XML files with full support of toolkits and gadgets,
probably better than some dedicated HTML editors can.
And it is all integrated. Just drag and drop the file
from your directory, and boom, you are in HTML edit mode
and the toolkit is hanging right there, down to style ***
editing on a sophisticated level.


Hmmmm, I dunno about that... .have you done much with the WMFSDK?

Nope, and to tell you the truth,
every time I see these new buzzwords,
I have goose bumps.

And with every new version, they invent tons of new buzzwords.

You see, it is the very strategy.

The idea is this:
As soon, as they release their next version,
with all sorts of new complications and complexities
of such magnitude, that it'll take you literally years
to fully comprehend it, you'll be tied up with chains,
and you MUST learn it.

So, after a couple of years, you, eventually, learn it.
And...

The next revision gives you entirely different wordview.

So...

You are FOREVER tied up to it, never quite able to
finally say: I know this thing in and out, as with
the next revision, you are a newbie again.

That is how they keep ahead of everyone.
But simply creating tremendous amounts of information
and "new", "advanced" technologies. Just about the
simpliest things there are, are labeled as "new
technology". It is like you were some kind of
electrician to be forever tought how to use the latest
version of a lightbulb, super wrapped into fully
distrubuted globally accessible, database systems
and virtual domains.

Intuitive is not a description that seems appropriate in the same
sentence with the proliferation of Interfaces supporting obscure and
ecclectic functions embedded in the bowels of the documentation for
that SDK.

Yep, agreed 100%. The DARK BOWELS of documentation.
Interestinly enough, the new version of documentation
does not even document things. When you hit on the subject,
just about all you have is a one line sentence, and it is
not even clear what subsystem that thing relates to.
The documentation became even worse than it used to be,
even though the previous versions were also vastly
incomplete and immensely convoluted.

But again, I think it is a deliberate effort.
They are not such dummies as not to understand
how to present the information in the easiest and
most insightful way, and having to deal with
billions of customers for generations.

It is not a mistake or omission, but that very
method to assure that everyone remains at a comfortable
distance behind, and so, even if you just crawl like
a turtle, by the shear fact that those "behind"
are carrying the mountains on their shoulders
that you yourhave created,
you have a comfortable margin to work with.

I, personally, think that Linux and the whole
GNU project is about the only hope left,
where all these blood thirsty corporate mega monsters,
can no longer control the oxygen supply.

The very fact that it is open source
have produced more advancement in technologies,
than all this talk on this thread combined,
even though we are talking to the experts.

But it is still "us" versus "them" talk.
Java is "good".
C/C++ is "bad".

And on and on and on.
It is rather a religious excersize
in proving that MY prejudice
is more valid than yours.

Things like that.

Wanna programatically cut a 5-second clip out of the middle
of an ASF movie file?

Nope. Sorry.
I try to stay away from all that madness.
What is there to cut on the first place?
Some horrendous destruction?
Blood all over my royal screen?
Inter-gallactic manifestations of NWO?
The EVIL, ruling the planet Earth?
Sorry, not interested.
Because, first of all, there is no information in it all.
It is just a continuos, ongoing onslaght on your intelligence.
Long subject.

:--}

You'll need an IWMSyncReader, IWMWriter,
IWMProfileManager, etc. etc etc...

I know, I know.
It all makes me shiver.

Anyting that starts with "I" in MS worldview,
is about the fastest one way highway to hell.

That'll keep you busy for a couple of years
and you'll shell out kilobux aon all sorts
of garbage literature, trying to get the idea
wa da funk are they talking about on the first place.

and about 3,000 lines of code later
you're done.

Well, you are lucky enough if that stuff even installs.
You'd have to download a few terabytes of their latest
and greatest I-SuperSync-Virtual-Multilayer-FullyZappazoid,
SuperTransContinental interface, and when you use your app,
you never know what is it sending in its fully encrypted
packets or what kind of jazz you are receiving from the
net, without even knowing it is happening.

Wanna do the same thing with an AVI file? Scrap your IWM stuff and
read up on DirectShow -- it's crazy, man.

But thats the whole idea, you see.

:--}

The other thing that's really badly managed by MS is incompatibilities
in released SDKs and a TON of obscure fixes via pragmas, deprecated
versions of SDKs, or instructions on how to modify the base code.

Like MFC -- you have to define the appropriate level with a #define
_WIN32_WINNT 0x0401 or some such rot, otherwise you'll get link and/or
compile errors.

Yep. Heard that before.
I was lucky enough one of my apps even built under last
version of their IDE.

But maaaan. Just trying to build it, is like an interrogation
with the FBI.

All these "assembiles". Just try to push help on
what is Assembly.
You hairs will raise a couple of feet tall.

After you traverse a few levels deep,
do you think it will become clearer
what da funk is that Assembly
beyond trying to slaughter Sun?

Not at all intuitive there.... a real impediment to programmer
productivity, IMO. I've personally spent hours perusing the WWW
looking for solutions to compile or link or coding problems which are
not easily found in msdn.microsoft.com only to find the answer in some
game developer forum or in comments in a someone's sample program,
etc.

Yep. This is a VERY typical problem.
And Java docs are not much different in that respect.

As I said before, the whole issue of information presentation
needs to be completely scrapped.

Interestingly enough, I told some people here,
that this very group could be a grand collection
of useful information. But the very presentation,
depth and coverage need to be vastly improved.

Basically, the "standard" procedure is to give you
some web link, where you can go thru yet another
pile of garbage, just to get a simple, straightforward
answer.

But that very answer could be provided RIGHT HERE.
Just take a few minutes of your time
and describe it in sufficient detail and precision,
and, from then on, this issue is covered, done with,
and it becomes a part of the biggest global information
system known to mankind and available thru 100k servers.

As I said before, I have at least 25k article archive
of this group, going back at least half a year,
and that information is available via some of the
biggest servers. For FREE. No need to even sign up.

And I have a gadget that allows extraction of that
information in a pretty precise manner, even if it
is poorly named, and to generate you very fancy
looking web pages, fully indexed, with navigation
bar, and you can adjust the way it looks using
your own style sheets if you want.

In terms of learning, this is a goldmine.
Better than just about ANY doc out there.
I'd rather spend hours reading the usenet articles,
than trying to find it in some "documentation".
And i get MUCH more in-depth view on things,
even if people "fight for their right"
to see things thee way it is more natural to them,
instead of having utterly biased, one view of the world,
which, in most cases, is nothing more than raging
marketing propaganda and a pile of confusion.

But that's stuff for a whole different thread -- it is possibly
relevant here in the sense that obstacles like that definitely will
push people toward a more "standard," non-OS specific development
language like Java.

Well, it is not a problme with me even on this thread.
This is the very nature of usenet.
Pretend you are in the main square of some ancient
city in Greece. You just get up on the podium
and say just about ANYTHING that comes to your mind,
and no one, mind you, no one, even the Emperor himself,
is not allowed to deprive your of that opportunity.

It is called Democracy.
People have forgotten all about it it seems.
Just about all that is "acceptable" is
utterly template built wordview
of "black" and "white",
"vituous" or "evil",
"good" and "bad",
and on and on and on.

But WHAT is "good"?
Can anyone define it?

In that sense Microsoft may be doing more to push people to other
solutions than they realize.....

True. And more and more people are switching to Linux.
I have not seen what is happening in Linux world
for a couple of years, but I suspect it is MUCH more
pleasant environment to deal with.

First of all, it is orders of magnitude leaner.
Than you have a full source code of every single
gadget or package. So you can see whats in the bowels
of it, learn how other people do it, and modify it
to either fix bugs or adjust it to the way YOU
see the world.

And THAT is the way to go.

This whole MS world is but outdated worldview.
It can not possibly have future,
especially considering that Linux/GNU world
has became something undeniably present.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that during
the debugging, I can step thru the source code
of JVM and see how my app interacts with it.
I like that idea.

ymmv...

Good luck.
.

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