Re: Help me!! Why java is so popular

raddog58c wrote:
On Feb 11, 4:25 pm, Arne Vajhøj <a...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Chris Uppal wrote:
Arne Vajhøj wrote:
We are impressed by your argumentation technique.
You are basically arguing that "Java is slow because it is slow".
I don't think he is, you know.
He is arguing that Java performance is less than C/C++
performance based on an assumption that the JIT compilation
runtime overhead is bigger than the JIT over AOT gain.

No, I'm assuming it takes longer to translate a thing and run it, than
it does to skip translation and just run it. I think that's a fair
assumption.

Yes.

But I was not arguing that.

I was arguing that you assumed the very specific system
optimization could only help close the gap.

FWIW, some of the late-binding advantage can be simulated with
reasonably simple code in any language. For instance an installation
script could check installed hardware and deploy the best from several
versions, or I could build a run-time hardware checker/loader to pull
code from a different DLL based on environments. I have created code
to do these kinds of things. It's not out of the box functionality,
but it's not very difficult either.

It is way behind what the JVM can do.

> Also, a JVM can pay attention to usage, provide caching, adapt at run
> time, etc., but such a service requires space and processing cycles to
> supply. That means *potentially* it could make a single processing
> unit it serves run faster or maybe not, but the service's computations
> come at the expense of the operating environment as a whole. Most
> comparisons focus on a single program's execution, but the resources
> consumed by the JVM to look for runtime optimizations are resources
> unavailable to other processes in the operating environment. How much
> I don't know, but computational knowledge requires memory to store and
> processor cycles to access. I do know large Java apps running on my
> workstation will "blackout" (eg become unresponsive to mouse clicks),
> and I don't experience the same from my C, C++ or Perl scripts -- I
> presumed garbage collection was running, but maybe it's the JVM
> looking for ways to run its apps and classes faster. 8-)

The JVM may decide to reoptimize in the middle of the
execution if the usage pattern tells it that the first optimization
was not optimal.

It is a standard example by the JVM experts - I do not know
much it actually does this in practice.

One other thing that I believe hurts Java's runtime environment is the
built-in unicode support. I have no use for unicode in my
applications, but Java stores everything as unicode, right? So that
means twice as much memory, and the need to convert from ASCII or
EBCDIC into and out of unicode, over and over again, and for nothing.
Is there are really good reason for mandatory unicode support? This
hurts Java's runtime model, IMO, and it's pointless if you don't need
it.

I think so.

Single byte only character sets is going the way of punched cards.

Arne
.

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