Re: Where to find good lisp critiques?

From: Kenny Tilton (ktilton_at_nyc.rr.com)
Date: 12/03/03 

Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:40:21 GMT

Brian Mastenbrook wrote:
> Perhaps my phrasing is at fault - I don't really mean to criticize the
> decisions of the CL vendors. I'm sure what works for them works for
> them. I do think they have an opportunity to expand their market by
> offering something more attractive to students trying to actually use
> the language (which precludes heap-limited trials).

I think the problem is combining "student" with "actually use". Sounds
like they ain't no student no more. :) Students doing intense stuff
should stop seeing themselves as "just playing around" and realize they
have crossed the line into "real work". The question is not studenthood,
the question is "whatcha usin' it for?".

Also, why not use CMUCL or SBCL? Because the IDEs suck? Agreed. Now
where do you think the nifty commercial IDEs come from? The added-value
you do not want to do without cost $$$ to create, and take $$$ to acquire.

As for student -> poverty, I don't know, how much is tuition? How much
is that mountain bike or snowboard? Lisp is an intense tool/language
(hard to make), and the economies of scale are not there (hard to sell).
In a few years when Lisp has taken over Fortune 500 you can expect a
bargain personal license (for anyone, not just students), but till then
I think vendors need to be given their due.

  I'm not sure what
> Digitool is thinking with a $450 student product, but perhaps more
> students have that kind of money than I'm aware (and I'm fairly
> well-paid by the university). My whine was intended to express the
> frustration caused by my experience with better tools (I had a
> non-limited LispWorks during the 4.3 beta) coupled with their
> out-of-reach pricing - nothing more.

C'mon, squeeze another year out of that Burton and give the better tool
its due. :)

kt 

-- 
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