Re: Comparing Lisp conditions to Java Exceptions

Christopher C. Stacy wrote: 
Ulrich Hobelmann <u.hobelmann@xxxxxx> writes:


Christopher C. Stacy wrote:

I think for end-consumer software that's a failing business model.
Who'd pay for a browser or mail reader?

End-consumers.

Probably not. They have that software bundled with their system


which they paid for. 

Sure, but they don't notice it, since it comes with the PC.


it's already hard enough to use for them.


I don't know what that means. You're beginning to sound like some kind of deranged Linux idiot.
Windows is WAY FUCKING EASIER and WAY LESS BUGGY for home users.

Calm down, ok? When I started using Windows (98) I was appalled by its weirdness. I started using Linux shortly after that and while installing it might take some expertise, I found the UI more consistent. To configure *anything* on Windows you often need to be an expert. My friends *always* call a CS student when they need to do anything on their machine. I got my dad a Centrino laptop with XP and he also can't do anything with it. Ok, that's my dad...

I switched to a Mac in Winter '03, and regret having gotten a Windows machine for my dad. I thought more mainstream would be better. Well...

Someday it might be different, but wishful thinking will not change it.
I will not debate that point with you.  If you don't agree,
then we live in different worlds, and that's that.

I never said I want to debate about Linux (which after all is used by deranged idiots, in your perception). Different worlds, yes, obviously.

They won't go looking for another solution. 


Everyone that I know has purchased third-party end-user software.
Usually, lots of it.

The people I know (ok, the majority students) use mostly freeware. The ones that got their machine custom-built (again, by CS students) use illegal copies of XP in most cases. Because they want, not because the student talked them into it.

As for browsers and mailers, some of them purchased Opera, but I think that IE, Safari (both of which are proprietary, and paid-for) and Firefox will dominate the market. 

Yes.

Lots of them have purchased Eudora, which is much better than the Mozilla offering. Of course, most people use Outlook Express, or in the corporate environment (and on their laptops): Outlook

Interesting. I haven't seen any Eudora for about 7 years, and that was on our high school mac (system 7?). Can't really remember what it was like. Most people I know use Outlook. The computer people use Thunderbird.

A meager 5% of Windowlers use Firefox now (estimated; I read that all
Mozilla Browsers on all platforms have almost 10% market share now),
and that's free, open, and cross-platform.


So what?

I didn't say that nobody uses free software. I said that everybody uses proprietary software. 

Ok, I misinterpreted it.

Yes, but end-consumers expect everything to come with their PC.


No, they go to Micro Center and CompUSA and buy tons of software, every day. It's a big business.

Ok, maybe my perception there is skewed. Poor students don't spend much money anyway. Maybe the USA is different from Germany in that respect, too.

They don't even consider looking for an OS (that's why they all end
up with a PC and a worm-ridded OS).  Maybe they'll buy Office, but
OpenOffice has a much better price tag.



OpenOffice is a crappy second-rate replacement for MS Office.
Maybe it will get better someday.

It's crappy, and I only use it to read ppt and doc files.
I doubt that MS Office is much more usable, though (Sun sells OO as Star Office, after all). Office suites in general are full of UI complexity, far too much for me being able to use them for about anything.

The people I know who use OO don't complain, BTW.

If you want something special, you have to pay.
That's a valid market for commercial, closed-source software.

"Valid" market? What's that?

One where people actually pay you I suppose. 


Do you not have lots of "computer stores" where you live?
Here in the USA, we have them in every mall, and strip mall.
They sell software.

In Germany there's many more small computer stores. The big malls and department stores also have software corners, but I don't really know if people buy lots of stuff there. I don't see people using a really wide range of software.

--
No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent. -- Abraham Lincoln
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