Re: Lisp is Sin

In article <d0fns1dfvasaoqujeb1gvq3vm2c486ifej@xxxxxxx>, ufo@xxxxxxxxxx
says...

>
> That makes me sad, since I like Lisp, but I have to admit that I agree
> with all three points. Am I missing some compelling counter-argument?

I think that Lisp has same problems like communism, christianity or
sport; they were built around good idea, but with time it turned that
people around these ideas prefer power over solidarity, salvation over
love, glory over healthy mind in the healthy body.

Thats same with Lisp. Ideas like AI, code=data, everything as 1st order
value and simple, uniform syntax are good ideas. However, it turned up
that Lisp users actually do not want such things; instead, they gone for
more "earthly" features like objects and macros. CLOS did relatively
little harm, it only overcomplicated implementation and sucked up lot of
community energy, but macro's were big miss. They not only absorbed lot
of energy, but they also polluted whole Lisp and compromised the main
code as data idea. The result is that Lisp does not progress any more. C
gone from #include to STL in last 25 years. Lisp? It goes nowhere.

Lisps ideas are good, and they will be integrated in the most popular
languages of the future. But not in the Common Lisp or Common Lisp form
that will be compatible with Common Lisp - or even Scheme.



>
> All roads may lead to Lisp, but maybe not any existing Lisp.

Lisp will not be an and. In my opinion, code=data is the most important
idea of Lisp, and data structure of the code is not necessarily list,
especially not Lisp list. It can be hash table as well; or some even
more general data structure.




.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Idiomatic lisp - loops
    ... we're talking about using dotted pairs as a data ... | schemisms in common lisp, then, hey, go to town with labels and the ... | while the idiomatic Common Lisp version I posted is one line. ... | modification to an existing data structure. ...
    (comp.lang.lisp)
  • Re: Survey: Do you use the "2" in Lisp-2?
    ... Why You should Not Use The Jargon Lisp1 and Lisp2 ... Graham's On Lisp, I'm wondering what the advantages of a Lisp-2 ... For another example, consider today's PHP language. ... Now, the question is, why do Lisps before Common Lisp have this multi- ...
    (comp.lang.lisp)
  • Re: Program compression
    ... problems to be solved much more concisely than with Lisp. ... In Common Lisp, it's another one line of code: ... My point is that different languages are based on different things ... it would be impossible for the author of a macro (in the Lisp ...
    (comp.programming)
  • Re: Program compression
    ... In Common Lisp it's just one line of code: ... In OCaml with OCaml's notation: ... In Common Lisp, it's another one line of code: ... Consider parsing Mathematica expressions including lists, rules, sums, ...
    (comp.programming)
  • Re: How Common Lisp sucks
    ... Note that the title of this post is *HOW* CL sucks, ... I would like to embed a language that is very similar to Common Lisp, but which differs in how it handles global variable references and arguments) syntax. ... And if it were done it would result in strictly greater expressive power. ...
    (comp.lang.lisp)
Loading