Re: Interview with Samantha Kleinberg on CL-GODB, Common Lisp & Bioinformatics

Tim X <timx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

As stated in another post, I do agree IQ tests do have some properties
which are desirable in a test which is supposed to give some indicator
of an individuals intelligence, but I think its very dangerous to
argue it is an actual measure of intelligence.

We could consider that IQ tests only measure the "fitness" of the
individual (for the implied cultural context).

It is very likely there
is a strong correlation, but that is not the same as stating it is a
measure of intelligence.

We could even completely ignore this notion of intelligence. Perhaps
it just doesn't exist, and only this "fitness" exists.

It is also interesting to note that one point
the report does make is that IQ score comparisons between groups is of
less use than comparison between individuals, which would seem to
discount the basis of much of this thread i.e. females consistently
have lower IQ scores compared to men and that is sifficient to explain
why there are fewer women in programming than men.

Then the IQ tests measure a better fitness of males than females for
the programming jobs. You cannot deny they do, can you? The numbers
witnessed result from a selection process, so it's natural that the
fitness be the important factor.

I still have a major issue with any argument that suggests fewer women
are programmers because they have a lower average IQ as a group
because it follows that therefore there should be a higher IQ average
amongst male programmers than non-male programmers, which I've never
seen any research to collaborate and which I doubt.

Yes, males are more fit in a environment where to survive you need to
be good programmer, like in a programmer job.

You may think that this definition and this theory is somewhat
tautologic, but it allows us to measure and make predictions. Now if
you want to theorize about the formula that will give the IQ in
function of the culture, genes, environment and nutrition of an
individual or a group, go ahead.

On the other hand, this "intelligence" theory doesn't work: we cannot
find a measure, and we cannot make prediction, since whites are not
more "intelligent" than blacks, or in some groups, males are not more
"intelligent" than female, then we cannot explain anything about why
there are more male in programming than female, or more blacks in
jails than whites.

__Pascal Bourguignon__
Litter box not here.
You must have moved it again.
I'll poop in the sink.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: How to get one interested in programming!
    ... programmers are females. ... Programming is an unnatural act for everyone. ... It's part of what characterizes highly successful people, that they have no problem accepting reality, and don't cling to stats when they're presented with an individual. ... It is the same phenomenon as in racism and as in what you might call the sillyness of "inverse racism", by which I mean the inability to accept stats because they could be argued by the feeble-minded to support racism etc. ...
  • Re: Challenges for Evolutionary Ethics
    ... But preference programming is the same as instilling ... The "gene that facilitates being programmed can ... fitness of it's parent form is _increased_. ... false organism fitness altruism (OFA) for over 50 years. ...
  • Re: More Feminist Whining: Not Enough Women in IT..
    ... we were programming before you reached puberty. ... provided they are female? ... pretty soon all males will be designated criminals! ...
  • Re: Interview with Samantha Kleinberg on CL-GODB, Common Lisp & Bioinformatics
    ... less women attracted to programming careers, but when they do come they ... than for males ... than womens I find this highly dubious data to use to explain why there ...