Re: Just can't hear enough about Cells?
- From: Ken Tilton <kentilton@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 08:33:56 -0400
Jack Unrue wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2006 02:29:26 -0400, Ken Tilton <kentilton@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
jdunrue@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
It seems to me (maybe nobody else sees it this way) that
the following analogy holds:
Lisp programmers : Cells :: non-Lisp programmers : Lisp
Nonsense. Steel's PhD thesis, Garnet KR, AutoCAD, COSI... Lispniks are all over the dataflow paradigm.
Nope, I still think the analogy holds. Cells has got example code
and commentary (I personally have taken advantage of it so I know
that's true), so I don't really agree with folks who criticize your
work on that front. I just think the concept is more of a challenge
than you realize.
I have witnessed this same phenomenon before, you know: some smart
dude comes up with a very powerful design and proceeds to get very
frustrated because no one around him/her seems to get it,...
ohhhh, thaaaaaaaat.
Nope. I anticipated the "neat hack only its mother could love" phenomenon and have put as much energy into simplicity and transparency as I have into power and efficiency (the other two biggies). Folks who do not get it do not get it because they have not tried.
Mind you, the Cells paradigm /is/ different, but as Philip wrote, the only problem is getting used to programming in "pull" instead of in "push". Just because a coachman has never driven a car does not make a horse and buggy easier to operate.
I have worked with body shop programmers who could not be bothered to write structured code. Are the concepts of structured programming too hard? Nah, those people just "refused to be bothered" (a direct quote), meaning they were too inured to the pain of spaghetti coding to realize how much "bother" structured programming could save them. They thought spaghetti code was /easier/ because, hey, how hard does one have to think to add another GOTO? It breaks somewhere else? Add another GOTO! C'mon, this is easy! Breaks somewhere else...read my lips: GOTO!
As for Pythonistas and Lisp -- are you not aware that Python is getting GF's in 3.0? They love Lisp! They even have "decorators" (guess), a MOP, and Norvig.
Jack, try to keep up, will ya?
:)
I haven't really been following Python developments, so I
guess I deserved that :-)
nah, I found out about an hour before I posted that, when Philip mentioned it. :)
kenny
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"Have you ever been in a relationship?"
Attorney for Mary Winkler, confessed killer of her
minister husband, when asked if the couple had
marital problems.
.
- References:
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- From: Ken Tilton
- Re: Just can't hear enough about Cells?
- From: jdunrue
- Re: Just can't hear enough about Cells?
- From: Ken Tilton
- Re: Just can't hear enough about Cells?
- From: Jack Unrue
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