ANNC: Cells-Gtk: In Search of Cells3 [was Re: Arity of a closure and a Lisp Community Process]



Friedrich Dominicus wrote:
Ken Tilton <kennytilton@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:


I see. You have the energy to review all these libraries and put up a
web page of results -- oh, wait, you are only talking. But it would be
funny if you did. Lispers: Unlimited Energy for Whining, Zero Energy
for constructive work.

This answer is absolutly useless, I spend more time on
getting somewhere with some libraries and guess what: I even dared to
write about that which has took me a lot of time.


Damn it man, let's go shopping!

No, you are right, it is a total PITA. Until we push those other languages into the sea and enslave the their captured users we just won't have the resources needed to turn one developer's personal gem into a portable, easily-installed, well-documented open source package. Someone spoke to Lisp-NYC about that big Lisp math lib and grabbed me with the analysis of how the laws of threes made open source projects 27 times harder than doing something for yourself. Having wasted god only knows how many hours on you ungrateful yobbos...well, I knew the 27 was no joke. What needs to change is Lispers, not Lisp. And the way to get better Lisp libraries is to work on them, not whine about them and defintely not to create another Lisp Gardeners? Other communities show their enthusiasm for their language by pitching in to make things happen. Lispers hang out on c.l.l and moan about crappy open source libraries which is really funny because they do not realize that open source software is created by people like them so I am picturing a mob of whining Lispers complaining about the libraries to their reflection in a big mirror. I was joking people there is no open source fairy, stop checking under your pillow. Anyone opening their big yap on this issue better be able to document two libraries they have helped out on and the one they are helping on now. At a minimum. I need a snappy line about not asking what others can do for you, rather... I need a finish.

The commonplace whine is that there are many projects out there in half-baked, unmaintained form. Hello? Figured it out yet? The answer is 26. Creating the project had a cost of 1, making it a package costs 26 more. That's you, OK?

A few people make decent libraries, then they decide the world might like it, too, so they put it up on c-l.net. End of story, unfortunately, mostly because you people really do not actually program computers with Lisp or we'd be hearing about your cool projects and if you did then you would end up using the libraries and then contributing to them. Everyone wishes they could use Lisp on the job. No, you wish you could be programming in Lisp. You can be. Just Do It. rah rah sis boom bah.

No, seriously write a hobby program for yourself or something to help an old folks home I don't know just write some Lisp, you'll need some libraries, get them working and leave a trail of bread crumbs for others to follow (documentation, patches for other Lisps/OSes). I am going to win this argument because Peter Hildebrandt is doing the poster boy thing on this as we speak, adding a significant extension to cells-gtk (after fighting tooth and nail to get all sorts of libraries working, still tricky even though former o/s poster boy Peter Denno made cells-gtk into a fine and documented package and made a nice enhancement by porting to CFFI and adding widgets which really only makes my point). What was my point?

But wait I'm just
one of thos annoying library users and not developers, which feel it's
funky to just say "use the source luke".

No, some of us released our libraries in the hope of getting others to pitch in. I have actually seen some stellar input, Frank Goenninger being a standout and Ilias helped out a lot with Cells, but when I think of how much work I went thru sharing my code even with the stellar input I have to say it's a net loss. Sadly because Lispers are so useless as a rule.

Well I see it's just my
fault. You attitude is all to typcial. Who cares for the users of the
library.., I surely not.

Nonsense! We /shared/ the code, didn't we? Doing so cost us an enormous amount of time and grief. Shuuu-uhhhh-uuut up! Besides...

It would not do any good if we shrink-wrapped the damn stuff, came over and installed it for free and gave you a week of training. You all just are not doing any programming, if you were you would be using the libraries and getting help from the original developers most likely. I went thru that on the user end with cl-s3 because I am working on an application (oops, I used the "A" word). But you are not writing A's so you kinda need an excuse so you say Damn libraries! Ha, it's like my excuses for putting that workout program off just one extra day -- I can always find one and don't let me make that sound like it is hard to do. I just don't want to tear my fat ass away from this computer. Where was I?


So keep on writing your code....

Thanks. I just put this up:

http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/cells-gtk/?root=cells

That is baby step #1 of Cells-Gtk ala Cells3, which is alongside it in the same repository. Otherwise it is standalone and includes a copy of CFFI (not current, but we may try).

All the demos stagger to the starting gate and function on the basics, but gaping holes remain that will take you straight back to the OS. I eagerly await the assistance from the hordes of Lisp users of PWUAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA I kill myself so it will become another unmaintained buggy undocumented library and I'll get the blame thank you very much.

We are doing this so Peter Hildebrandt -- hmmm, Peter Herth, Peter Denno .... I must think on this -- can do cells-ode (the name says it all, but given the precedent set by Edi with Hunchentoot I have suggested he name it The Suez Canal. Next step will be a using list of :cells :cl-ode :kt-opengl, just begging to be named Grain Alcohol.

What open source did you do today?

kt


--
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/

"In the morning, hear the Way;
in the evening, die content!"
-- Confucius
.

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