Re: Is a new CL standard possible?

On Mar 25, 2:12 pm, gugamilare <gugamil...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 25 mar, 06:39, Marco Antoniotti <marc...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 24, 11:57 pm, gugamilare <gugamil...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'd go even further and
standardize iterate (with iterate, you don't really need the
collecting macro)

LOOP is standard.  Iterate is mostly useless, even if it should have
been in the CLHS instead of LOOP (Ok: this is a flame bait! :) )

No, no, LOOP sucks. LOOP is not lisp, it's a strange language that
invaded lisp. You can't do, for instance:

(loop for elt in list
      (case elt
        ((:foo :bar) (do-something-with elt)
        (nil nil)
        (t (collect elt))))

This completely sucks. The functionality inside LOOP is eternally
trapped inside LOOP and you will never be able take it out and use it
anywhere else! (Ok, Yes, I caught your flame bait! :)

(loop with result = ()
for e in list
do (case e
((:foo :bar) (do-something-with e))
(nil nil)
(t (push e result)))
finally (return result))

It sucks a bit, but it ain't that bad either. Plus it is relatively
readable.


and cl-ppcre.

cl-ppcre is <quote> standard <unquote>

Swank can also be packed together
since 99% of CLers use Slime.

I am in the 1%.  You are not taking seriously the underlying problem,
which is to expose a real standardized networking API.

weblocks, maybe? The problem is weblocks have a lot of dependencies,
many of them you will never need for other applications. It seems a
waste for people who want, say, create desktop applications.

In general I hate pointless dependencies. That is why I look with
favor at ways to improve the standard and enlarging it.

In any case the point I was making is that a better, common networking
API would be more than welcome.


I would also standardize let with the features being discussed,

Useful.  Write a CDR and have it really really taken it apart.  What
if I propose my different version of ExtLET?  (Which, by definition is
better that any proposal I have seen so far :) )

It is difficult to agree with you without seeing it.


Google CLL for LETBIND and see when I proposed one before. The
problem is that until you (or me) hashes out the details (and there
are always details where the devil hides), by actually writing a spec,
we are just chatting on CLL. And no, I do not think that just
providing an implementation is suffcient either.

and
defmacro to allow easy hygienic macros

That is a big no; everything you can do with hygienic macros you can
do with regular macros.  Plus, we should really standardize CL-
UNIFICATION instead :)

When I said hygienic macros, I didn't mean exclusively hygienic
macros. Have you seen Clojure's macros? You do
(let ((a# b))
  ..)

and a# becomes a gensym. I thought something more like this. See the
discussion I linked in my text.

Write a CDR for it within the scope of CL. The above (Clojure) is
not a clearcut advantage over WITH-UNIQUE-NAMES vel similia.
Hygienic macros a' la' scheme introduce needless extra complexity to
the standard. Besides, there are libraries floating around that
implement DEFINE-SYNTAX, SYNTAX-RULES etc etc.


cl-unification is, IMO, very specific.


Yes. But I wrote it and it is a very cute thing. :) Plus its MATCH*
macros do what the extended LET/DESTRUCTURING-BIND do, and then
more :)

Cheers
--
Marco

.

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