Re: changed to OT Re: DocumentHTML ?

~greg <g_m@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Sinan > wrote
I don't know what to make of you.


But please understand me --the temperament that
appears here is not anything that ever lasts in me
for more than a minute.


Unfortunately, once the message is sent, you can't undo it.

Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.

But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.

Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.


--
Tad McClellan
SGML consulting
tadmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas


please don't spam.


Including what you do for a living in a .sig is not spam, it is
perfectly acceptable tenant of general netiquette.


What is the point of that remark?

Well, Sinan,
What is the point of Tad's contribution to this thread?


You found out one of the group's expectations the hard way.

My point was that you could find out most of the rest of them
the easy way.


Please break out of the little world here for a second
and read it objectively.

It is a nasty, insulting, trivializing, pontificating,
officious


Sorry, it was surely not intended as such.


-- and - content-wise - a completely
empty thing.


While using warnings/strict is a Perl-specific element of netiquette
and therefore of limited applicability, avoiding top-posting is
universally accepted across all of Usenet.

I wanted you to know about TOFU before you experienced angst
in other newsgroups as well.


~greg t> wrote:
> Gentlemen, I'm old.
Me too. Bummer eh?
> It would never have occurred to me that explicit
> "use strict"
> and "use warnings" is a courtesy to others.
Please see the Posting Guidelines that are posted
here frequently.
> I will do it from now on.
Thank you.
[ snip TOFU.
Please don't do that either.
]


I had said to you (Sinan) that I will
use the "use..." stuff from now on.

So what was Tad's point in bringing it up again?
right after I said I would?,


I thought you'd smack your head and say:

If only I had known about warnings/strict before posting.


- in his quoting me saying so?,
--and in his chiming-in with (--what emoticon?)
"Thank you" ?


That was truly sincere.

The most common response to "you should use warnings/strict" is:

Don't tell me what to do.

I expected a more pleasant response from you though, based on
the attitude displayed in your first followup.


(The answer is that he was being passive agressive.)


A "conclusion" does not correspond directly to an "answer".

We have experienced yet more miscommunication it would appear.


Is there something, - anything, - specific in his guidelines
that he wanted me to see?

Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).

Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).

Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:

http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html


Some generality, perhaps, of obvious applicability
to "use strict" "use warnings"??


Besides knowing the syntax for them, it might be nice
to peruse their documentation (referenced in the guidelines).


Right near the very top of Tad's
"Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.7 $)"


They are not "my" guidelines, they are "our" guidelines.

They were discussed, and agreed upon, over several weeks here.


it says:

"This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc,
is a technical newsgroup intended to be used for discussion
of Perl related issues (except job postings), ..."

And near the middle it says:
"Never quote a .signature
(unless that is what you are commenting on)."

And near the bottom it says:

"AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup. "

~~


I am now commenting on Tad's .signature.

Note especially the specifically-mentioned parenthetical exception:
"(except job postings)"

Note how it is given pride of place,
right near the very top of Tad's document.

So apparently Tad has written just for himself
some kind of secret-exemption to this rule.


I did not post a job posting.


Why does Tad tell everybody to go read his guidelines?


So that they can avoid being silently killfiled.


And why does he put "except job postings" right at the top of it?


Because even Perl-related job postings are not welcomed here.


Well, this is the reason: ...
It's so that any other "SGML consultant" who chances by,
and who wants to follow all "the rules", to be polite,
- will decide not to advertise himself
in the same way that (only) Tad is permitted to do,
in his .signature.


Everyone is permitted to include their job title in their .sig.

They are even permitted outright advertising in their .sig.

If you don't know much about Usenet netiquette, then commenting
on Usenet netiquette is talking out of place...


What, pray tell, was Tad's point in commenting to me
the way he did?
--this way? : ...

~greg > wrote:
Gentlemen, I'm old.
Me too. Bummer eh?


It was meant as a witty aside.


That remark would have sounded very different
if it had a clear purpose. Or if it had been
elaborated in some friendly way.


But I can see how it could be interpreted that way. Let me rephrase:

I feel your pain.

I am old too, and it is a drag (but much preferable to the alternative!)


As it stands, though, it is pure monkey business.
It's a razz.


No it isn't. I actually _am_ old.


--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
.

Relevant Pages

  • Assholes1
    ... The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. ... Send Discard ... Followup To: ... fake address of an di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system ...
    (rec.outdoors.fishing.fly)
  • Re: Oxycontin and FMS
    ... netiquette issue before. ... others nix top posting. ... Bottom posting drives me nutz but I deal with ... Trimming has been the "habit" since the beginning of usenet. ...
    (alt.med.fibromyalgia)
  • Re: X-No-Archive, here we go again ;-)
    ... So leaving Usenet to use Usenet is what, ... I refuse to conform to other peoples prejudices when those ... prejudices have nothing at all to do with netiquette. ... as impolite as top posting or posting in HTML to text groups. ...
    (news.software.readers)
  • Netiquette
    ... netiquette convention, networking ... The most important rule of netiquette is "Think before you post". ... posted to one or more inappropriate groups in the first place. ... Re-read and edit your posting carefully before you post. ...
    (alt.guitar.beginner)
  • Re: PC HDTV tuner
    ... |> | looking at the MyHD recently and with the glitch on their site I didn't ... But I did answer to the topic shift about how it is ... you can help others by posting a followup that points out the errors ...
    (alt.tv.tech.hdtv)