Re: UI toolkits for Python

Claudio Grondi wrote:
"Steve Holden" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
[...]
[Claudio]
I don't fully understand your attitude here. The Web Browser interface 

has

all I can imagine is required for a GUI, so what is missing when you
consider, that you can generate custom images on the fly on the server


and

let the user shape the page without requesting CPU power from the server
using JavaScript.

In this case then, I'm afraid the failure is in your imagination :-) 


Any useful hints towards enlightenment except criticism?

Perhpas the mistake I made was bearing in mind the title of the thread, and the fact that this is a Python newsgroup. 

I don't even name here the not really beeing itegral part of Internet
Browsers JavaApplets and any other kind of plugin stuff.
The only issue I can see with this approach is the speed of responding


to

user interactions, but for really optimize this one needs a compiled
language anyway.
What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet Browser


as a

GUI?
Do I miss here something?


While you are correct in saying (I paraphrase) that HTML interfaces
nowadays can offer a rich graphical interface, it can be quite difficult
to manage state maintenance between the two components (web server, web
client) in the system.



The cause of confusion here is, that HTML interfaces don't necessary need a
web server and HTTP to work. I mean, that Internet Browsers
have an API which allow access to them directly, so they can be used without
a server as a kind of GUI library supporting widgets programmed
in HTML and JavaScript  (I haven't used them yet in this form, but I think
it should be no problem - right or not?).

You are perfectly correct that interfaces can be programmed in the browser. As has already been said, with the adoption of standards like CSS2, it's even possible to make such stuff run across multiple browser platforms (at the moment, though, just try writing an interface that makes table rows appear and disappear in a cross-browser fashion: you'll find the style*** techniques you need to use for Mozilla and IE are very different). But this doesn't help you at all if you are trying to interface to Python logic. 

A "proper" GUI runs all functionality inside a single process, and
allows much easier control over complex interactions, creation of
dynamic dialogues, and so on.


Complex and dynamic is in my eyes possible with HTML and JavaScript, so I
still don't see where is a problem with this approach. I have programmed
already a HTML and JavaScript driven server platform and know about (the
solvable) problems with the back-button and sessions (it is sure not the
easiest way of programming a GUI).
The only disadvantage of not using plugins or Java is, that real time
interactions are not possible, but this is in my eyes usually not the
requirement for a standard kind of GUI with no gaming, no Virtual Reality
and no timing of user response down to milliseconds (but consider, that with
a good speed of connection it is even possible to play blitz chess over the
Internet).

So, back to the subject: with an HTML/Javascript interface, how do you propose to bolt Python logic into the same process? Or do you admit that the application that interacts with such an interface either has to be all JavaScript or in a separate process?

regards
 Steve
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Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
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PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/

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