Re: Python education survey

On Dec 25, 5:44 pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:51 pm, Raymond Hettinger <raymond.hettin...@xxxxxxxxx>

Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
If not, what is the tool of choice?

I believe IDLE has the potential to be a very useful teaching tool and
even in it's current abysmal state, i find it to be quite useful.

Students may not be experienced with the command-line and may be
running Windows, Linux, or Macs.  Ideally, the tool or IDE will be
easy to install and configure (startup directory, path, associated
with a particular version of Python etc).

Why install an IDE when IDLE is already there? Oh, yes, IDLE SUCKS. I
know that already. But this revelation begs the question... Why has
this community allowed IDLE to rot? Why has guido NOT started a public
discussion on the matter?

Though an Emacs user myself, I've been teaching with IDLE because it's
free; it runs on multiple OSes, it has tooltips and code colorization
and easy indent/dedent/comment/uncomment commands, it has tab
completion; it allows easy editing at the interactive prompt; it has
an easy run-script command (F5); it has direct access to source code
(File OpenModule) and a class browser (Cntl+B).

Yes, IDLE has all the basic tools anyone would need. Some people
complain about a debugger, but i never use a debugger anyway. I feel
debuggers just wreaken your debugging skills.

On the downside, some python distros aren't built with the requisite
Tcl/Tk support;

And who's fault is that?

some distros like the Mac OS ship with a broken Tcl/Tk
so users have to install a fix to that as well; and IDLE sometimes
just freezes for no reason.

And who's fault is that?

 [IDLE] also doesn't have an easy way to
specify the startup directory.

Are you kidding me? That could be fixed so easily!

If your goal is to quickly get new users up and running in Python,
what IDE or editor do you recommend?

IDLE, of course. But NOT in its current state.

Why would myself (or anyone) go to the trouble of downloading third
party IDEs when IDLE is just waiting there for us to use? I for one,
like to use tools that have open source code.  And what is a better
Python IDE than a Python IDE written in PYTHON? I ask ya?

Also, what is the purpose of this thread Raymond? Are you (and others)
considering removing IDLE from the source distro?

You know. Many folks in this community have known for a long time how
much i love IDLE, but at the same time how much i loath it's atrocious
code base. I also know for a fact, that many "movers and shakers"
within this community simultaneously use IDLE, and want to see IDLE
code improved. However. None of these fine folks have taken the time
to contact me privately so we can discuss such an evolution. Why is
that? It boggles the mind really.

Do people seriously use IDLE? I thought it was just there for
scratchers, like turtle.